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Original poster

To think I am NOT being racist if I say I am not attracted to a Pakistani person?

429 replies

funkypigeon · 20/08/2013 20:29

I am newly-ish single after a long marriage to a man from the Middle East.
I had a conversation with a few friends today, over coffee we got talking about types of men that we are attracted to. I said Mediterranean, Middle Eastern. Then I said I am not usually attracted to Asian men, and my friend said that was being racist.

I am shocked tbh. Am I? I've got loads of Asian friends, and colleagues. Just because I don't fancy them doesn't mean I would ever be rude or treat them differently.

Opinions please!

OP posts:
curlew · 22/08/2013 08:29

It's the use of Pakistani to mean "person with brown skin" that's the problem.

ArgyMargy · 22/08/2013 08:40

Agreed, curlew. And we are just a short step away from the N word...

Latara · 22/08/2013 08:41

Curlew that too is a problem.

Latara · 22/08/2013 08:48

To rule out fancying men / women from entire continents does seem very drastic - how does anyone know until they actually talk to someone whether they might fancy them?

I say this because i'd never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive.. then I met a man from the Phillipines - I got to know him at work, really liked his personality, started finding him physically attractive and we had an affair.

Now I don't rule out any men due to race or ethnicity - who knows until you get to know a man?

samandi · 22/08/2013 08:57

*well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans

It is racist to me.

It's different to say "I've never been attracted to anyone German previously" IMO as that is a simple fact. To then rule out a whole race of people for future consideration is judgemental etc etc. *

Saying you are usually never attracted to a certain race/nationality/ethnicity etc. is also a simple fact. Saying you are usually not attracted to a certain race etc. does not mean that you would rule them out in future.

worldcitizen · 22/08/2013 09:00

Latara I say this because i'd never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive

so where is the difference to OP, who had a conversation with a friend and said

I am not usually attracted to Asian men

and her friend said she was being racist Hmm

maybe, if her friend would have told her a story like yours or could have referred to someone like you and your experiences and said

Someone at work or a friend I know never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive.. then she met a man from the Phillipines - She got to know him at work, really liked his personality, started finding him physically attractive and we had an affair.
Now she doesn't rule out any men due to race or ethnicity - who knows until you get to know a man?

Why make things bigger than they are?

worldcitizen · 22/08/2013 09:06

samandi I don't get your post.

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.

samandi · 22/08/2013 09:10

For some reason people seem offended because I said I don't generally fancy Pakistani men partly because they usually have moustaches ...

Can anyway define exactly what the problem is with this? Am I supposed to force myself to look past what is to me a very physically unattractive feature?

My views towards Pakistani cultural attitudes towards women also seem to have hit a sore point. Perhaps some posters need reminding that violence against women (especially rape and sexual abuse) in Pakistan is a huge problem, that domestic violence is not illegal, that women do not have the same access to education and property ownership as men etc. etc.

samandi · 22/08/2013 09:12

*samandi I don't get your post.

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.*

I'm not talking about the way Pakistani/Asian is used. I'm just saying that saying you are not usually attracted to a certain race doesn't mean you might not be in the future.

curlew · 22/08/2013 09:13

"Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK."

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Which "changes and ins and outs" are you referring to?

samandi · 22/08/2013 09:18

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist.

Why would they mis-use it?

Jinsei · 22/08/2013 09:20

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Yes, I agree with this. It's just a "politer" version of "paki", isn't it.

Jinsei · 22/08/2013 09:21

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Yes, I agree with this. It's just a "politer" version of "paki", isn't it.

Latara · 22/08/2013 09:24

Sorry worldcitizen but I don't really understand your post about my post?

I was saying that I used to have an attitude towards some South-East Asian men a bit like the OP's towards some Pakistani and Indian men, but have changed my views because I learned that personality is what is more attractive than looks; and that you can become physically attracted by personality IYSWIM.

Not sure what's wrong with me saying that?

worldcitizen · 22/08/2013 09:32

Nothing wrong with you saying this at all Smile That's my point.

So nothing wrong with OP as she said the same you used to say, assuming you weren't racist then, right?!

So, why not allowing that someone is not at that point in life (yet or maybe never) where you are now???
Without being accused of one of the most offensive terms.
Maybe she gets there or maybe not.

It's certainly not something THAT important.

People here who make blank accusations of racism are folks I would like to run a mile away from in real life.
Meaning: I would keep my relations to you at work or in public life to a a very polite minimum.
Now go and call that racist as well...

Moche · 22/08/2013 10:04

I really hate this ignorant thread!

Samandi: "
My views towards Pakistani cultural attitudes towards women also seem to have hit a sore point. Perhaps some posters need reminding that violence against women (especially rape and sexual abuse) in Pakistan is a huge problem, that domestic violence is not illegal, that women do not have the same access to education and property ownership as men etc. etc."

What the fuck daily mail ahoy. The well-off Pakistani women have every access to education as men. So many female doctors, for example. And remember that Benazir Bhutto ran their country. (Although unlike Thatcher she was assassinated...albeit not for her sex!)

Think about what rights we women have in the west, too. Hardly equal rights.

Amrapaali · 22/08/2013 10:10

Hear, hear Moche!!

Moche · 22/08/2013 10:10

And what rape and sexual abuse? We have this here. During my time in Pakistan I remember a nurturing environment and know of no rape cases among Pakistani friends (although, equally, I only know of one rape case among (white) UK friends). What you hear is valid (here and there) but it doesn't mean everyone is being raped and hurt (here or there).

Moche · 22/08/2013 10:15

Actually, the same sort of clap-trap comes from other countries (thinking hard-line Saudis) who think everyone in the west is evil and being raped and hurt. Those sort of hard-line Saudis are a worry I'll agree, but NOTHINg to do with most Pakistanis (mant of whom follow a more sort of mystic, Buddhist, branch of Islam, known as Sufism). Assuming, Samandi, that you know that gentle Buddhism comes from the area that is northern Pakistan and imbues the thinking? Thought not.

samandi · 22/08/2013 10:45

*What the fuck daily mail ahoy. The well-off Pakistani women have every access to education as men. So many female doctors, for example. And remember that Benazir Bhutto ran their country. (Although unlike Thatcher she was assassinated...albeit not for her sex!)

Think about what rights we women have in the west, too. Hardly equal rights.*

The "well-off" women.

Seriously? We have a hell of a lot better equal rights than in Pakistan ...

Buddhist, branch of Islam, known as Sufism). Assuming, Samandi, that you know that gentle Buddhism comes from the area that is northern Pakistan and imbues the thinking? Thought not.

Erm, Buddhism originally developed in northern India, in Bihar. I do know that, because I have been there. Sufism developed quite later, about 1500 years later. If you're going to try and argue based on history, at least get your facts right and/or don't try to confuse people by referring to Sufism as Buddhism.

Pakistan is an overwhelmingly Muslim nation. It was actually formed as a Muslim nation. The numbers of people of any other religion are miniscule.

Latara · 22/08/2013 12:11

worldcitizen I didn't accuse the OP of being racist or even use the 'racism' word so don't pick on my post thanks.

Original poster
funkypigeon · 22/08/2013 12:43

Right, reading through the thread has made me look it at it a different way. Here are the facts that I'm saying- I am not usually attracted to men from Pakistan, India, Philippines, China, Sri Lanka ok? I am stating facts here. Isn't it a simple as that? I wouldn't rule them out but it was a statement that I made.

I think some people are just being silly here, I really do.

OP posts:
curlew · 22/08/2013 13:13

. Here are the facts that I'm saying- I am not usually attracted to men from Pakistan, India, Philippines, China, Sri Lanka ok?"

And you called them all Pakistani because?

Alisvolatpropiis · 22/08/2013 13:14

This thread has gone quite odd.

I'm not usually attracted to most men full stop. There are a lot of them and the majority are never going to float my boat. I do have a type - tall,skinny,dark haired, bit geeky. That covers a multitude of men of all races obviously.

EstelleGetty · 22/08/2013 14:03

I also loved the post (sorry forgotten the name and can't scroll back on phone) of the poster who suggested that if someone disagrees with her, they must have 'baggage'!

LessMiss. For the third time. I have no idea how you managed to take from my post that I a) suggest that sexual preferences have 'baggage' attached or b) suggest that anyone who disagrees with me has 'baggage.'

In fact, I never used the term 'baggage' in conjunction with a person. I said discussions surrounding race and racial terminology carry baggage or, if you prefer, are loaded with meanings and connotations formed from centuries of hierarchy, prejudice and abuse. Which cannot be forgotten. And that is why we need to always speak mindfully and respectfully when we speak about race, because misuse of words can still be offensive and harmful to people. The histories of colonialism and oppression are not going to go away.

I think that's pretty much essential for decent behaviour.

Funkypigeon, what you said initially could be construed as racist. But you've clarified what you meant, apologised for any offence caused and that is enough. I don't think there are racist 'people,' there are racist behaviours and we have certainly all been guilty of offensive behaviour at points in our lives.

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