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to think life is a HUNDRED times more difficult when you're POOR

229 replies

poorandworriedmum · 17/08/2013 22:23

NC so i can have a good moan.

It's only summer and im already dreading winter. I can't afford Christmas, cant afford winter coats for DCs, or good enough boots, cant afford heating costs, cant afford bus fares to spare DCs havung to trudge everywhere in all weathers, cant afford to make hearty meals to keep us warm. Sick of living in a damp, mouldy cold cramped old flat that never gets warm, sick of paying rent for such a slum that makes DCs ill, sick of looking at our shabby things & seeing how few books and toys We can affrod to give our kids, sick of looking through a window that gets no light because the landlords tree presses against the glass and we arent allowed to touch it, sick of saying 'no sorry sweetheart we cant afford that' when they're not asking for a trip to Disneyland they're asking to ride ten miles on the bus to the free gallery for gods sake. Sick of the way small debts follow you for years, sick of feeling unable to support my two kids, sick of never ever ever having treats like a fish supper or a hot chocolate in a cafe. Sick of dreading letters home from school wanting two or three pounds for this or that because we are so chronically bones of our arse poor that we never have that spare. Wish I could treat my kids some times. My DD is 6 and sees the ads for Build A Bear Workshop and her eyes light up and I wish I could take her just once and leg her choose what ahe wants. My DS wants to go to a circus. Its beyond us to provide anything extra or special for them ever and I am so fucking sick of living hand to mouth. How much of a different life my kids could have if we werent spending all our income and then some keeping alive.

DH and I work four PT jobs between us, theyre all shit nd badly paid and we're both knackered (and my cleaning jobs have given me a prolapsed womb and bad back) and hardly see each other and what is the point when we cant even give our kids a pleasant chidhood?

Fuckisng sick of being second class citizen.

OP posts:
enderwoman · 18/08/2013 14:43

I hope you come back OP. I also have stuff that Id love to pass on. You'd be doing me a big favour.

ArtemisFoul · 18/08/2013 14:44

You've spectacularly missed the point holidaybug of course a well paid job with good prospects is the way out of poverty, but the problem is there are often no jobs to go to. A problem magnified exponentially if you have children and need to work round expensive childcare.

The vast majority of people in dire straits are constantly looking for ways to improve their lot including the constant search for a better job. The patronising statements of just find a better paid job as if it is so easy do not help at all and are just a kick in the teeth. I always got the impression that I was being chastised and it made me feel like crap.

Oh and try and access all this wonderful free training if you are over 25 and in employment, it doesn't matter that you are barely scraping by, you're off the unemployment figures so that's all that matters.

It's a slog OP but keep on and I hope things turn round for you.

LostMarbles99 · 18/08/2013 15:28

What dress and shoe size are you OP?

I have winter boots and coat that I no longer need that I could sent you. They are in v good condition.

PM your details pls

KateCroydon · 18/08/2013 15:28

Please take a look at www.entitledto.co.uk - it'll tell you if there are any benefits/tax credits you can claim. Takes minutes and is anonymous. There are billions in unclaimed benefits.

FWIW, we are lucky enough (and it is luck) not to have money worries but three quarters of DS's toys and clothes are hand me downs, most of the rest come from charity shops.

One of the many cruel things about poverty seems to be that accepting help is presented as shameful, while when everyone else does it it's ok.

Would you feel better about taking things now if you thought about being able to hand them on when your children had outgrown them?

Blondeshavemorefun · 18/08/2013 16:12

i am so sorry you are in this situation - please accept the help myself and others want to give you- whether it is clothes/toys etc - anything that will make you and your family's life better/easier

i know you say you dont want charity, but charity begins at home and so many people on mn want to help you out - to some of us we can afford and want to help you by either donating clothes/toys/other items that otherwise wont be worn/played with.

no one should have to live like this, people say money doesnt buy you happiness, it doesnt, but it gives you choices and opportunities that otherwise may not get and that makes someone happy when not worried 100% of the time how to pay for xyz

many schools have a fund for families like yourself who struggle (no offence meant) Flowers, to pay towards school trips/swim lessons/harvest festivals etc

many towns have a food bank as well, i have contributed to one near me and it makes me happy (if that is the right word) that i can help someone -maybe google your nearest one

as others have said check that you are not entitled to any more benefits

I understand that you say dh wont like it, and has his pride but people WANT to help and maybe one days in 5 years you will be able to do the same for someone

put it this way, if you could help someone you would wouldnt you

well we want to help you Flowers

catsmother · 18/08/2013 16:16

There's absolutely nothing wrong in offering advice to the OP. The more suggestions she gets, the more likelihood there is that something might just help her. But at the same time, those offering advice have to bear in mind that everyone's circumstances are different and not everyone will be able to avail themselves of the advice offered - as much as they'd otherwise like to. Not for nothing is the "poverty trap" called the poverty trap and sadly, disgustingly (for a so-called civilised society) there are many many people whose desire to "better" themselves so they can support their families with a basic standard of living means nothing if they literally can't take the steps necessary to improve their lot.

I think it's relatively easy for many people who've never been in desperate dire straits to think that improving your life is always possible one way or another, even if it involves sacrifice - but fail to recognise that for some families there is no way out. "Moving" - to areas with better employment prospects, and "retraining" - in the hope better qualifications and/or skills will lead to a better job are, not surprisingly, always touted ..... but I can't help thinking that some people have absolutely no concept of how impossible it is for some families to realise this. Moving: how do you transport your worldly goods from A to B ? How do you do this if you have absolutely NO savings and have already pared expenditure to the bone so you can't cut back any further ? Not everyone knows "someone with a van", not everyone has a credit card with which to pay - or, alternatively, cannot take on any further debt as they'd be unable to service this. How do you pay your deposit and 1st month's rent with no savings - especially, if, as is probable if you move to an area with better employment, your new rent is higher ? What if your former landlord keeps back some or all of your previous deposit ? It's no good saying that these things can be overcome if you're moving to a better job ....... who's going to wait (landlord or removals) for your 1st pay packet ? .... no-one! And no, not everyone has friends or family willing or able to step in and lend or gift you the money required. And no, not everyone has stuff they can sell to cover these costs (anything remotely valuable will have probably gone a long time ago).

The issue of retraining is perhaps even more difficult when you're on your uppers. As Artemis says, if you're in low paid work the govt sponsored retraining schemes are all but closed to you. Even if you find something - how do you get there if you can't afford transport costs ? How do you support your family in the "meantime" (the years between training, qualifying and actually getting a better paid job) if your bursary (if applicable) is less than the sum you're earning currently in your low paid job, never mind if you don't get a bursary at all! In similar past threads I've seen people roll out all the old clichés like you have to "speculate to accumulate" or "short term pain, long term gain" ..... which, in some circumstances, may very well be true but it is literally impossible to "speculate" at all for some. I've been in OP's position in the past, wanting desperately to improve my lot, but completely unable to take on any further debt as I wouldn't have been able to make repayments and would have no doubt ended up in even a worse position (things only improved for me when I met someone and stopped being a single parent but quite clearly I wouldn't advocate that solution, nor is it realistic for couples!). It isn't just about being able to afford fees, or finding a "free" scheme, but about living while you're doing it FFS!

This is NOT about being defeatist (or lazy, or feckless ) it's about being realistic. The infrastructure to support people in improving their lives - and ultimately, the country's economy - just isn't there any more for a significant number of people trapped in low paid jobs and awful accommodation. It isn't just about "moving" or "retraining" .... it's all the associated stuff you need in addition which enables you to achieve those goals: affordable childcare, affordable transport, accessible credit (and I don't mean Wonga etc), available jobs, decent affordable housing etc etc etc.

Most people accept that improving your life probably isn't going to be "easy" and are prepared to work hard to get what they need/want but there has to be a level playing field before we start inferring that poverty is always the fault of the impoverished - because it bloody well isn't. Some of the hardest working people I know are also the poorest. Look at the OP and her DH - 4 jobs between them - which she says wipes them out. Yet "we" are constantly fed the message that hard work is the answer to all ills - it isn't as simple as that, and in order for hard work to be effective, as in, providing a basic standard of living, a whole load of other stuff also needs to be in place. The people I've personally come across over the years who've moved from a very bad place to a more acceptable one have very rarely done so purely on the basis of hard work and compromise - there has always been an extra element of luck involved, e.g. a family member stepping in to offer free/subsidised accommodation, childcare or money, or a chance meeting with a neighbour who suggests a reciprocal childcare arrangement, or maybe an inheritence - that sort of thing, the sort of "leg up" which most people will not be able to access.

OP - I don't know what the answer is, and I'm sorry to have gone off on one on your thread. Reading about situations like yours though makes me so angry on your behalf. I don't know what THE answer is - but I do know that how you're forced to live isn't right. I think what everyone else has said about kids needing love more than "stuff" is absolutely true but I also appreciate it perhaps isn't quite as simple as that when you get to the stage of trying to feed them nutriciously, or ensuring they live in a home that's warm enough. There are so many aspects to being poor which maybe don't occur to people who've never been there - the grinding boredom, the restriction on your movements because you can't afford to travel further than your feet can carry you, the breakdown of friendships and wider family relationships because again you literally can't afford to get to people - and the resulting isolation - it just goes on and on and there's never a break from it, or light at the end of the tunnel. You are absolutely NOT scum though - you DO work hard and probably a damn sight harder than many of those who'd label and judge you for being "poor". Please please do not be ashamed to access any offers of help you think could benefit you - it is absolutely "freecycling". Stuff which would otherwise have languished in people's lofts for years or chucked into landfill. It's far better to use this stuff and you can then help others in turn by passing it on when you no longer have a use for it. I don't know what else to say OP - it seems so useless to say I hope things improve (when that goes without saying) after all the stuff I've written about how damn near impossible - or sod that, completely impossible it is for many to improve your life. I hope you can take some small comfort from knowing that despite the attitude and message that comes across in some sections of the media, and from some on here it has to be said, there are also a great many people who are absolutely disgusted and outraged that so many families have to live the way you do through absolutely no fault of their own.

amicissimma · 18/08/2013 16:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holidaybug · 18/08/2013 16:33

I'm going to bow out of this thread as I clearly have 'spectacularly missed the point'. People move countries to find a better life, let alone move to a town elsewhere in the UK. Being realistic is knowing that improving your situation requires action, not inaction - nobody is going to change the world for you, you have to make the changes yourself. Anyway, I've said my piece and I sincerely hope you find a way through it OP. Good luck.

blowhole1 · 18/08/2013 16:36

Hi, I've never posted on MN before but felt so moved I just had to respond. I have 1 DD and would very much like to send you some of the things she no longer uses. She's a real bookworm so we have loads of books etc that are just sitting here. I'd be happy to post some. It wasn't so long ago that I was a homeless, unemployed single mum. Things got better for me and I'm sure things will for you too. If you want to respond I will send you my email address - if you didn't want to give me your address I understand and could post them anywhere you wanted.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 18/08/2013 16:36

holidaybug There is not lots of free training. There is no funding for level 3 courses and significantly less for levels 2 and 1.

Vocational degrees such as; social work usually require an access course. It used to be very low cost to do an access course, now it is a few grand. There was a social work bursary to support people through the degree, that has been cut.

I think you are very naiive.

GameSetAndMatch · 18/08/2013 16:43

we're in exactly the same boat, OP.
thankfully DC doesnt ask for much and accepts things as they are and weve had a couple of nice donations from friends but yy to not being able to treat ourselves to anything.
this all sucks.

money CAN buy you happiness in the sense that you're not worrying about the bills/food/clothes/heating/water/where the next pennys coming from, cutting out money off coupons from anyewhere you can.

and money can treat you and kids without spoiling them.

yes its all true that time and love with your family is true riches and happiness but as OP saysd when you cant even have quality time with family cos youre working all the hours there are in a day.

LoganMummy · 18/08/2013 16:45

Please PM me your address.

I've accepted offers of help in the past and I know how hard it is to finally accept. But once you do things start to get a bit easier. One day it will be your turn to be able to help others.

BadLad · 18/08/2013 16:47

to think life is a HUNDRED times more difficult when you're POOR

Well, no, of course you aren't being unreasonable. Money can't buy you happiness. If I were a billionaire, but had no arms or legs, I probably wouldn't enjoy life as much as an able-bodied lower middle class person who had fifty quid left after all bills were paid each month.

But compared to a quadruple amputee who didn't have any money, then I would be able to afford the best care 24/7. So money makes life easier for everyone.

There is the law of diminishing marginal returns. Really wealthy people don't seem to me to have all that much less stress than upper middle class professionals, I suppose. So after a point, money doesn't buy that much more freedom per pound.

Hope things get better for you soon, OP.

starlightloz · 18/08/2013 16:57

peachactiviaminge, if you would be happy to pm me your address and let me know how old your baby and daughter are I would be more than happy to send you some clothes as I have a mountain that you would be doing me a favour to take off my hands.
OP I do understand your reluctance to accept donations but if you reconsider please pm me your address too.
I also second the recommendation for Christians Against Poverty. They have a proven track record of sustainable help rather than just a short term quick fix and have really helped out friends of mine.I was very much a 'benefit scum single Mum' when my youngest was born and was very aware what some other mums in the playground at playgroup thought of me but am very chuffed that time has proven that the security, love and stability I could provide my son have had the longer lasting effects of him being confident, friendly and a pleasure to be around so the superior attitudes over designer children's was meaningless in the end but hard to face at the time. I also had the privilege of being able to take my son to another country to work on projects with children who really were impoverished which had the added bonus of teaching him that we might have been the poorest in the area but it was nothing in comparison. I know that sounds a bit like the dinner ladies at school who would tell you to eat grotesque food as some child in Africa was starving which always prompted me to tell them to put it in an envelope then as I didn't want it. I know it's little comfort but I honestly don't believe that my two youngest boys will have a better childhood than my eldest did just because we are now financially better off. I hope that the goodwill of all these posters who would love to help your family out give you a boost at the very least.

cq · 18/08/2013 17:01

Great post, Catsmother.

Just chipping in to say I am one of those who is unspeakably angry that hardworking people like the OP find themselves in such a miserable, relentless grind.

I am going to copy this thread to my MP. Useless, entitled fucker.

littlemog · 18/08/2013 17:03

Wishing you the best OP. Keep your head up lady, you are doing a fantastic job.

Tuon · 18/08/2013 17:16

"I've accepted offers of help in the past and I know how hard it is to finally accept. But once you do things start to get a bit easier. One day it will be your turn to be able to help others."

This, I've pm'd you. I have some trousers and long sleeved shirts I can send, also a wee rain coat that would be good for autumn for your DS. I've accepted help, some of it from MN. Then, when life get's better, you pay it forward.

StuntGirl · 18/08/2013 17:18

despairs Oh god, some people just don't get it do they? Holidaybug you are being well meaning and not malicious - I hope - but you're right, you really don't get it.

People do move countries for a better life, yes. They require some degree of funds to do this. How is it so hard to see that when you are choosing between heating and eating you just don't have those funds?

Catsmothers post was amazing and eloquent and perfectly put. Anyone who thinks the OP "just isn't doing/trying/saving/working enough needs to re-read that post.

OP I am so sorry life is so hard for you and I really hope things can get better for you.

GoldenGytha · 18/08/2013 17:37

I feel you, life is so hard when you have nothing. My kids are older now, young adults in fact and two have just started work so things will improve now, but in the past month I have fainted through not having anything to eat and only water to drink, I've had days with no electric and have had no heating or hot running water for over a year. I've spent the weekend in bed in order to save on the electric and at the moment I don't even have any toilet paper in the house. I very nearly came to blows with a friend recently when she said she was also as poor as me then proceeded to spend £60 on lottery tickets, telling me she does this every month, Before anyone says how come I have internet, it's free on my phone I am paying for through HP. I'm a long way from Norfolk but I share your despair OP

cory · 18/08/2013 17:43

holidaybug Sun 18-Aug-13 16:33:23
"I'm going to bow out of this thread as I clearly have 'spectacularly missed the point'. People move countries to find a better life, let alone move to a town elsewhere in the UK. "

Yes, if they are fortunate enough to have relatives to club together for the ticket. Millions are still left behind in their home countries in grinding poverty. The ones who manage the escape are never the poorest, never the ones totally without resources.

TheRobberBride · 18/08/2013 17:56

Of course YANBU. Being poor is shit.

Great post catsmother If you are on a very low income it is very easy to feel helpless and hopeless. Move? How can you do that if you can't afford a deposit, agency fees, or have a car to transport your stuff. What if you have debts or a poor credit rating.

Retrain? Again how? With most courses, there are fees to pay. How can you pay them with no money in the bank? How would you get to a collage? How would you pay the extra childcare costs?

I've been poor (though my circumstances have improved now) and it's very very depressing. It turns the world into a bleak bleak place where every single purchase must be agonized about. I once stood in an ASDA store in tears because my period had stared and they had sold out of own-brand tampons. I couldn't afford the extra £1 or so for Tampax. The only clothes I bought for 5 years were from car boot sales. We couldn't afford to put the heating on it winter so we were always freezing. It was horrible.

You have my utmost sympathies OP.

OwlinaTree · 18/08/2013 18:07

I've not read every comment on here, so apologies if repeating.

Have you joined the library for the books? There's a toy library in the sure start centre in our town, v minimal joining fee. Have you been to the food bank? What about charity shops for winter coats? Does your child's school have an Xmas fair, there's always loads of cheap toys at those. Are you claiming any benefits you are entitled to? Free school meals? Have you sought advice on the debt to make sure you are managing this in the best way? Could cab help with this?

I really hope you are able to try some of these steps to help yourselves, it sounds like you are working so hard at the mo. Good luck

SueDoku · 18/08/2013 18:07

catsmother I've just read your post and want to stand up and cheer..!

It said it all - how support for retraining via FE has been relentlessly cut back and back so that the college places just aren't there any more - how it is utterly impossible to 'move' without money to do just that - thank you for putting it much more clearly than I ever could... AngrySad

FreudiansSlipper · 18/08/2013 18:37

YANBU

having the constant worry of how to pay bills and affording things that you need is draining it hangs over you all the time. I have been there but not with children that must be so worrying its stressful enough when things are just a little tight I really feel for you :(

and as for people moving abroad because money is needed (not a lifestyle choice) it it is usually young more often men and women that move all the family club together and they are expected to send money home and later maybe the family will join them not a whole family move together when they have nothing. They will live in overcrowded flats with people in similar situations

I really hope things change its not fair it really is not we are a wealthy nation no one should be living this way

pm me please I have too many things I just do not need. I have accepted help in the past and maybe one day i shall again right now I can help and want to

sashh · 18/08/2013 19:36

Thanks for telling me about the Christmas gifts, feel a bit thick not knowing.

In my defence I don't actually celebrate Xmas so maybe that's how I missed it.