to be riled by this comment from a colleague?

[dancingwithmyselfandthecat]

Someone I manage has requested emergency leave (unpaid - for the next couple of weeks) because her childcare arrangement for the holidays has fallen through.

I said that I would bring it up with my manager as soon as I could today, but explained that it is unlikely we will be able to accommodate the request because we are low staffed anyway (what with it being August and having accommodated other people's planned leave requests) and have some big deadlines coming up. I said that we may be able to meet her halfway, but she may need to make other arrangements, and if she needed some time today to ring around that would be fine.

To which she replied "Well, there's no way I can ask my husband because he earns more than me and has the more important job".

Now, I won't take this comment into consideration one way or another, but AIBU to be annoyed by it? From our perspective, she is a well-paid, full time employee with responsibilities. It is neither here nor there as to whether in a private context she and her DH consider him to be the "dominant" worker. And from a women-in-the-workplace/feminist perspective, what hope do we have of gaining greater equality when women treat their professional responsibilities in this way?

OP I would talk to ACAS and give the person requesting emergency leave exactly what you are required to given them and not any more.

I would also put that person at the back of the queue for consideration anything good (pay rise etc.) and front of the queue for consideration for anything bad (e.g. redundancy).

but I would bide my time and give the employee all their legal rights make sure their treatment was fair.

fairness also needs to be applied to clients and other staff. your employee is not someone i would want clients or colleagues to depend upon.

Exactly rainrain. Whilst I have every sympathy with the employee, in the end she has a contract to work these two weeks and it is entirely discretionary whether her or his employer cooperates. Is there a policy on such leave ? I would expect a colleague to have explored options , maybe requesting a few hours off to do so, before asking for additional leave and perhaps leaving others in the lurch as she has been. Could well be that her dh has turned around and said it is her problem to sort if that has always been the arrangement.

But if there was no other option Velvetspoon - surely your children come first?

Is it wrong of me to wonder how this woman's childcare that covered two weeks has fallen through?

I think it's either:

A) the carer is very ill and won't be better for weeks
B) the woman and carer have fallen out
C) there never was childcare

Totally off on a tangent and me just wondering. In my place of employment we get a day to find alternative child care. Even if a child is ill.

yes I was also a bit . Is she in work today ? The sceptic in me even wonders if she has the opportunity to take a family break at last minute. It just doesn't take 2 weeks to find an alternative arrangement for at least some of the time. However as someone pointed out it may cost her more than planned and she could "make a loss" by working and paying compared to taking unpaid leave.

There is almost always another option though. Whether it means sending children away for a few days to relatives (have done this, exs relative not mine obviously), or if alternative childcare can't be arranged locally, then looking further afield (I had to take my DC 30 miles by train to a playscheme in the town where I worked at the time, as my CM was on holiday and other arrangements fell through). It was only for 4 days, inconvenient (meant leaving home at 6.45am) but avoided me needing emergency leave.

Ultimately my job is what puts food on the table and keeps a roof over my childrens heads. I feel I should do all I can to be there to do the job I'm paid for - and if it involves inconvenience to me and my DC occasionally, that's just the way it is.

Spottie I have wondered that too, but she wasn't forthcoming and of course I didn't ask.

To whomever said that you can't meet someone halfway because childcare is a cliff edge, well I have tried to do exactly that - and its a damn sight more than many employers would. I have given her two options - bring the kids in, or spend some time finding an alternative source and if that means there are some gaps, work out a plan for how you'll manage your work around those. And whilst I didn't state, or imply that her asking her husband to step up so she could meet us halfway might be helpful, the fact that her immediate response was to dismiss that as part of the solution didannoy me a bit.

I am now ttying, very hard, to be sympathetic and not annoyed by the fact that she was very dismissive when I gave her these options this afternoon. Because I really have tried my best, and short of majicing work away there isnt much I more I can do.

Oh LIZS, I hadn't even thought of that! I really hope no-one would be that sneaky.

As velvetspoon said, in that situation I'd be on the phone to every possible childcare provider to arrange care. I did take my 10 yr old in to work for a couple of days when childcare arrangements fell down suddenly (obviously after checking it was okay).

She's being ridiculous if she thinks she can just have 2 weeks off unpaid leave in August with no notice. And if she isn't being gracious about you meeting her halfway then she's going to be lucky to even keep her job.

I think time off for emergencies should be just that. lack of childcare is not an emergency, as a couple they should have back up. Otherwise where do you draw the line.
YANBU as you have tried to meet her halfway, which is as you say more than many employers would do.

Even if there is no county council playscheme , 8am to 4pm , in your town/ village, then is often one in a certain mile radios, that you could utilise, on an emergency such as this.
Or a cm. no cm within a 10 mile radius? Who would take, if you begged and explained it was an emergency. Unlikely.
There simply is not many excuses.
Possibly a last minute holiday.

Haven't read whole thread...

But, seems like a disciplinary to me.
I thought for parental leave was for things like taking your child to A and E if the school calls after a fall

NOT taking two weeks off in the height of summer...
This is pre-planned...

The employee is taking the piss IMO, possibly even going in holiday.

The thing is with childcare, 2 whole weeks is not an emergency. Today, tomorrow and even the next day might be but there are loads of holiday clubs and play schemes for their ages that she could sort in that time, ask people she knows etc. Fact is, she doesn't want to sort anything out, she just wants 2 weeks off.

If I employed her, I'd try and make some checks as to whether she's in the UK!

I don't think the request in itself is disciplinary . Should she just not turn up as agreed or suddenly pull a sicky instead that could be.

Clearly the way that the colleague asked for the time off wasn't great, but what I struggle from this thread is all the people struggling to understand that for some jobs you simply can't take time off at short notice, which is why the colleague's husband can't help in the circumstances.

I have a job like that, I'm the breadwinner and so all emergency childcare falls to my DH. I just can't help at short notice and I appreciate that the reality is that it's usually men, not women that have those jobs.

You'll find a lot of men put family before work too.

Well the one being discussed here clearly doesn't, Worra, as his job is too important to take time off to look after his kids.

You gotta laugh at MN - all these people going on about the dozens of options for childcare without any idea of a) the area/availability b) the employees finances - yes, it may be cheaper to take the unpaid leave than to fork out for emergency childcare costs.

Maybe some of you are such great loyal employees you would suck it up for the good of the company and your reputation/career- maybe you can afford to, but the person in question may not.

And now a whole bunch of strangers are insinuating that she's maybe trying to pull a fast one and got a holiday lined up. Nice. I hope the poor thing isn't a MNer

I'm not saying she should not try to find alternatives, and 2 weeks is a lot to expect, but without knowing ALL the details, we can't say what her needs or circumstances are. Maybe this really IS the only option.

The employee is taking the piss IMO, possibly even going in holiday.

I think so, too.

Sounds like the sort of person to do that as well, from what OP said.

I would definitely be finding out where she is if she does end up having the time off. It's not like you're harassing someone who's off sick, after all.

Where on plant Mars are you all working OP? Summer holidays surely have to be the easiest holidays to find childcare for.

If she Googles 'Holiday play Schemes' there'll be an internet tsunami of links!

And as her H is so well paid, unlike us lowly paid single parents, it would be cheaper than her taking unpaid leave, surely?

I'm glad you gave her time off to find childcare. I'm willing to be that she WAS planning on going away. Hence her anger.

Anyone in that genuine situation would be grateful for whatever plan you could come up with.

I have to say that if my school holiday childcare (ie; my mum) fell through, then I'd probably be taking unpaid leave. My family is pretty much zero these days, I don't have any good friends for the dc's to go to, and DS's allergies would put paid to it anyway ("here have my child, but he might drop dead if you give him the wrong food!"). I don't know anyone who uses a childminder so I wouldn't be putting the children with someone I don't know. It's not such an unusual situation to be in so I wouldn't assume she was lying.

Phantomnamechanger - we live in a rather large city in the south-east. I haven't looked, but I'll hazard a guess that there are forms of childcare available even if they are expensive/inconvenient.

Regarding her finances, and whether these options are as expensive or more expensive than unpaid leave- I'm not - and can't be expected to - be sympathetic towards this, in a professional capacity. Obviously, I would personally feel bad if it were costing her to come into work, but that is a decision/situation facing many working parents. She has taken the decision to have a permanent, full-time job which pays her a decent salary on the same day every month. We can only pay that salary if work is done on time and to client satisfaction. If it isn't then the choice between paying to work or staying at home wouldn't be hers, and unfortunately we'd have to make it on behalf of other employees too.

Just out of interest (because I've put so much on the internet already, why not?), if any of you were in this situation and your manager offered you the option of bringing your children in some or all of the time, on condition that they read or played quietly in an empty office, would any of you respond with "but they'll get bored"? Because on top of everything, that has REALLY pee'd me off, and I feel kicked in the teeth for having really tried very hard.

Apologies for venting. It's not been an easy day.

how old are the DC, how many, how long a day - yes, they probably WOULD get bored - and fight!

....she wants 2 weeks off work.

" for some jobs you simply can't take time off at short notice, which is why the colleague's husband can't help in the circumstances."

Firstly those jobs where you literally can't take time off in an emergency are actually pretty few and far between. Actually what's far more often the case is that one person earns more, or one person's employer would kick up more of a fuss, or in one person's job it's not usual or the Done Thing to take time off, or for one person it would be less convenient. But jobs where it's literally not possible are rare.

Secondly there is absolutely nothing to suggest that this is the case with the OP's colleagues husband. In fact the colleague said she would not even ask the question because her husband earns more and his job is "more important". That doesn't sound like one of those jobs to me.

Where it's men with the high earning, cannot-possibly-take-time-off jobs I think it's often bravado, or the fear of being looked down upon by colleagues for taking time off for the kids.

My DH has the kind of job and kind of seniority where many people would be all "oh I can't possibly take time off, I'm far too busy, important and expensive". Which is a load of tosh, and DH has certainly taken time on several occasions.