to be riled by this comment from a colleague?

[dancingwithmyselfandthecat]

Someone I manage has requested emergency leave (unpaid - for the next couple of weeks) because her childcare arrangement for the holidays has fallen through.

I said that I would bring it up with my manager as soon as I could today, but explained that it is unlikely we will be able to accommodate the request because we are low staffed anyway (what with it being August and having accommodated other people's planned leave requests) and have some big deadlines coming up. I said that we may be able to meet her halfway, but she may need to make other arrangements, and if she needed some time today to ring around that would be fine.

To which she replied "Well, there's no way I can ask my husband because he earns more than me and has the more important job".

Now, I won't take this comment into consideration one way or another, but AIBU to be annoyed by it? From our perspective, she is a well-paid, full time employee with responsibilities. It is neither here nor there as to whether in a private context she and her DH consider him to be the "dominant" worker. And from a women-in-the-workplace/feminist perspective, what hope do we have of gaining greater equality when women treat their professional responsibilities in this way?

What if it was a work environment where you couldn't bring the children to?

I think a few days off to make alternative arrangements is reasonable. It's up to her to sort out holiday clubs etc.

Re her comment, perhaps she doesn't value her job. Maybe it's just something that pays the bills.

PramQueen I have kids so perhaps I can answer from my perspective. Of course everyone may have to deal with emergency issues but blatantly telling your employer that your partner's job is so important and in that context your employer should suck it up is unreasonable and unprofessional.

It does not matter how unimportant in your family's context you consider your job to be, but your employer consider's your job of sufficient importance to hire someone to fill that role. In that sense perhaps the employer should consider hiring someone who values the job.

You may also find that people in a senior role often have more flexibility around jobs than those in a more junior role.

In OP's case you can see she is being flexible but I would have been astonished by any employee, male or female, who used the relative unimportance of their job as a reason for asking for time off.

who used the relative unimportance of their job as a reason for asking for time off.

But she never said her job was 'unimportant', did she? She said 'more important' and I can fully understand what she meant. She sounded panicked to me; like someone who knew damn well that her husband would not step up here (or rather 'step down') and that finances were the overriding concern in all this. Yes, her words seem imprudent but she sounds to me as though she was panicking a little at the thought of not being able to afford the alternative.

"Everyone pretending that blokes on bigger salaries than women should 'step up to the plate' and take the necessary time off in an emergency."

How is it "pretending"? And if you are so concerned about feminism you should be absolutely in support of both parents taking equal responsibility for their children, rather than the woman doing it all.

"Surely feminism means you have the right to see to your kids in whichever way protects your family best"

Er, no it really doesn't mean that.

Erm, I am absolutely not a feminist; quite the opposite. I am assuming the OP is and is championing men dong their fair share regardless of salary disparity.

Of course we are all speculating about words and intent here......

I would/always have/ and always will take time off. Rather than dh. Especially for an emergency, kids ill. I work part time. My job is easier to take time off. Dh just can't. He works full time, at a higher salary, and his job is more important. We can't pay the mortgage without it. But I would never say that ..

Isn't feminism about empowering women? So, now they've been dragged into the workplace and given a nice little salary, they are expected to sort out alternative childcare when there is an emergency; childcare they possibly can't afford.

Pram you may not be a feminist but surely being a parent means that both parents have responsibilities to their children...your employer does not have responsibilities for your children.

Responsible employers will try to accomodate a family's needs but believing that a woman's employer is the one that MUST bear the brunt causes a lot of the issues we have in the workforce today.

No, the parents are expected to sort out alternative childcare. Why just the women?

Isn't feminism about empowering women? So, now they've been dragged into the workplace and given a nice little salary

Pram you are either trolling or .......

I think if the man is largely financing the family he can't be expected to come home and babysit in an emergency, that's all I'm saying. That is my opinion and no, it isn't a very feminist perspective, but then again I'm eleven weeks pregnant, left my career to try to conceive and don't intend to go back to work, ever

No, I'm not a troll. Would you like to be reported for suggesting that? I'm on the March 2014 antenatal thread if you'd like to check me out. I'm also on the Early Pregnancy after IVF thread.

Right. Well, I've had a fun afternoon trying to sort this out. My manager and HR both proved to be suprisingly helpful. I gave her two options, based on some of the things I was thinking through upthread, and she was very annoyed that her rest-of-August-off wasn't one of them. But I think that I have been more than fair - I have done my best to make this easy for her, and I have to think about work deadlines (yes, we have them in August! Bloody evil !) as well as the rest of the team, who all have out of work commitments as well (children, elderly parents, hobbies which are important to them) and on whom it isn't fair if time for those is undermined because we've prioritised one person's needs.

Flowery I think you, as well as others, have expressed better what I've tried to or have been thinking. I and other female friends have noted recently how, since we hit our early thirties, it has become that little bit harder to get promotions etc. If it were just me, or just one of us, you could write it off as maybe that man is better than me/her, but collectively it just seems to be happening too regularly for that to be the case, and I feel a bit miffed (privately) if a more widespread reluctance for couples to share childcare responsibilities makes employers concerned about hiring women of my age. Partly because it then becomes a vicious cycle - men get promoted over women, so of course the woman is earning less and it makes sense for them not to share, so of course employers assume that they will take the burden of emergencies when they hire women...

PramQueen I hope that provides answers to your question on "where's the feminisim in that?" I should probably not respond to you, but I do like some banter, so here goes. Feminism is not about me, as someone who gets in the shit if work isn't met, protecting your right to organise your family life however you like regardless of its impact on me, your salary payer. It is about recognising the talents and abilities of women and their intrinsic equality - as half the female race - with men. I will do my best to be sympathetic towards your family's needs, whether you are male or female, but as a private employer I am not, and can't be expected to be, an enternally beneficient and generous arm of the welfare state.

Pram as one of those women earning a little salary.....I hope that your comments are a bit tongue in cheek. Maybe feminism is also about having a bit of common sense.

Ah well there's the difference. My DH doesn't "babysit" his own children. Perhaps in a family dynamic where there is that mindset, that attitude makes a bit more sense.

Sounds to me like she was on the defensive because you immediately told her you probably wouldn't be able to accommodate her and tbh 'meeting her halfway wouldn't be much use as childcare is rather an 'edge of a cliff' situation really - you either need it for the whole time or nothing. So then she is thinking her DH is the only other person could look after them and was just pre-empting you putting her in that situation.

I think you're on a loser basically she cant just 'try harder' to come in or just leave her DCs. If she has no childcare then it is what it is.

It's not outwith the realms of possibility that someone on a pt MW job is in sole charge of say, a shop, or cleaning an office. Them not turning up for work could lose a client or contract which could put a company out of business. Or could cause a hospital theatre to close, while I come to think about it.

Meanwhile a DP on megabucks will no doubt have a laptop, team, PA and support to enable them to work from home.

Who will lose less money isn't the only measure of who should take the time off.

Pram when I walked in to the workplace I had a very large salary, thanks very much, and often that meant putting my employer before my kids. I know, shocking isn't it?

I agree with flowery.

I am very surprised at some of the attitudes on this thread about working mothers being somehow 'entitled' to emergency leave for a couple of weeks (!) because their childcare has fallen through.

It's attitudes like that that make employers reluctant to employ women with children.

This is a problem for BOTH parents to sort out. It may not mean the father taking time off to do emergency childcare (although that should be looked at not just dismissed). Can't HE take annual leave at short notice? All those comments about 'well, as a manager, you would cope if the mother went off sick for 2 weeks' can just as easily be said of the father who can't take time off work. If the mother got run over by a bus and was in hospital for a week, he's have to do something, wouldn't he?

Another option I'm afraid is just to throw money at the situation, as a family, which includes his wages, and for 2 weeks, do whatever they can to allow the mother to fulfill as many of her work responsibilities as possible. And accept that's the price you pay sometimes when things go tits up. Is there any work she can do at weekends, for example, when presumably the father will be around to do hands on parenting?

As a working mother, there are a number of options I would be exploring before taking 2 weeks unpaid leave, and that was a foolish comment to make to a manager. Yes, she might be panicking - it also sounds like 'my work commitment is the least important thing in our work/family set up and so I am likely to drop you in it at the last minute again.'

I desperately want more employers to be family friendly - but this HAS to involve fathers, otherwise it just makes women into unreliable employees.

ooh, cross post with dancingwithmyselfandthecat -

I think what you've said sounds very fair and I think your 'women in the workplace' analysis is sound too.

Am just thinking that in this situation as a single parent & no family to help out, my best bet would be to get signed off with stress for 2 weeks? Assuming that said children were with childminder who suddenly couldn't have them for some reason?

I desperately want more employers to be family friendly - but this HAS to involve fathers, otherwise it just makes women into unreliable employees.

This is so important. If women are seen as unreliable employees, fewer women get hired/promoted. You may call it a feminist issue if you like.

I'm a single parent with no living family (only child, parents and grandparents all deceased). My ex wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire so whilst (if in a situation where my CM was suddenly unavailable) I would still ask him, I would have no expectation of his assistance. At best he might volunteer his mum for 2-3 days. I would be on the phone to every childcare provider in the area to see who had vacancies, and booking the children in immediately. If I was still left with a couple of spare days after that, I would ask round friends.

It would never occur to me to expect weeks off as emergency leave, or to try and get signed off sick. I would, somehow have to make arrangements. I wouldn't want to look unprofessional by doing anything else.

Maybe they've rowed about it at home and she's stressed as he won't?

I am soooo depressed by some of the attitudes on this thread expressed by women towards their own jobs or those of other women.

Just because one person's job might not be the main income in a family seems to mean it's totally expendable and can be pissed up the wall and the employer dumped in the shit at short notice.

I am beginning to see why some employers might feel that working mothers are not worth employing