Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To want to leave this website for making me think about that one.

599 replies

filee777 · 13/08/2013 11:31

It's really really upset me, I've had some great support on this forum but I think I have to be off.

Such a shame.

OP posts:
littlemisswise · 14/08/2013 12:08

So the exact same company your Dad worked for filee. Is he aware you hold him in such high regard? How many rapists is he covering for? How much shit did he fuck up?

It's not me who is unaware of basic facts!

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:09

I have tried very hard not to make this thread about littlemiss and her DH, because it is not about him or her, its about a huge problem

if i failed that objective then i am sorry, i did not mean to attack your DH, i dont know him or anything about him.

I know plenty about army training though and i know plenty about the shite that our armies get up to abroad, that is what i am commenting on, not specific individuals i have never met.

OP posts:
MrsBW · 14/08/2013 12:10

Pretty sure the ''if your DH wants to get paid to go abroad and fuck shit up then thats his business but he is no hero for it' was directed at me Mme as that post started 'I'm basing it on....' in response to my question.

I won't put on here what my DH does for a living.

But it's about as far removed from 'fucking shit up' as it's possible to be.

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:11

My father is plenty aware of my views on the forces.

And yes, he has admitted that shit went on that he would not walk past and ignore in Britain, but that it is culture to ignore abroad.

What amazes me is that some of you think this stuff doesnt happen, that it doesnt warrant talking about. Why do you think a large portion of the world fucking hates us? Unbelievably blind.

OP posts:
fromparistoberlin · 14/08/2013 12:11

I have reported this too. noone is listening to anyone, and people on both sides are getting upset

pointless

MrsBW · 14/08/2013 12:12

And I still reject the premise that Forces personnel are 'more likely' to attack, rape, terrorise or murder.

Of course it happens and I'm not excusing a single incident.

But I don't believe it's more likely than civvie street.

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:12

Why do you think there is a website dedicated to army personnel where it is acceptable to make jokes about torturing kids and raping women? Why do you think that is okay?

its okay because it happens whether you like it or not.

OP posts:
MrsBW · 14/08/2013 12:14

I repeat.

Of course it happens and I'm not excusing a single incident.

But I don't believe it's more likely than civvie street.

MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:16

Ha. I am not blindly defending the forces.

I am defending the Mumnsetters who are in the forces, or whose families are in the forces. Who you are calling murderers and rapists.

And I am asking for a rational and polite debate.

If you think there is one person on this thread who is not appalled and horrified by the Kenya thread, you are likely very much mistaken. I also think most of us are adult and aware enough to know that bad stuff goes down in the world.

Whether that is in the forces, or in some corporate offices, or in political circles.

Women and girls are being abused wherever we look but we don't help them by getting into pointless shouting matches on the internet. Or by attacking other women for not caring enough.

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:16

Mme the armed forces are not only trained to be desensitised, they are also paid to wear the uniform of this nation and go abroad

i cannot see how you can think that it is okay that ANY rape and abuse goes on in those circumstances. Its totally different to someone out on the street of their own accord behaving in a dreadful way, both are still awful but one is done in the name of our nation.

OP posts:
Amrapaali · 14/08/2013 12:16

filee I think it's a case of denial. Don't talk about it, it will go away.

And I'm genuinely befuddled as to where OP made a personal attack.

MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:17

And again - go read 4chan and Reddit.

It is the internet that is vile, it is society. Not the armed forces.

You have just picked that one website to hang your grievance with the politics of intervention on.

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:18

For the last fucking time, I haven't called ANY ONE PERSON a murderer or a rapist, i have said that there are a proportion of people in the armed forces who enjoy raping and abusing people, i have said that due to the nature of army training and the lack of care further up the chain, their colleagues are less likely to report or stop such attacks.

Seriously, read and react to what i actually write, or direct it at someone else.

OP posts:
MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:19

oh, FFS. Don't put words in my mouth and don't ever suggest that I think rape and abuse is ok.

That makes me really fucking angry.

MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:20

Right, then back that claim up with stats and reports, and then we can have a discussion about what should be done.

And stop using such emotive language.

filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Amrapaali · 14/08/2013 12:21

Mme you don't seem to understand where OP is coming from. She is very aware of the fact the Forces represent a nation. So when some tearaway in their ranks commits some fucked up atrocity, it reflects on the whole military and by extension, the country.

The atrocity may be made up, but the impressions it leaves are not faourable.

A bit different from someone posting shit on Reddit.

LadyBeagleEyes · 14/08/2013 12:22

As MmeLindor said, the best thing we can do is ignore ARRSE.
There's nothing they like better than putting out more and more outrageous statements and getting other more powerful sites such as Mn giving them any attention at all, and there's nothing we can do as MN does not control the internet.
I do think their moderators are shit though, I haven't read them since the last debacle and have no intention of ever looking again.
ASFAIK the army do have their own website, of which ARRSE is just a tiny offshoot of sad bastards, the rest are just decent working men.
IGNORE< IGNORE< IGNORE.

Original poster
filee777 · 14/08/2013 12:22

Where the fuck have i said that you condone rape?

You say its no different from a civvy on the streets, I say its very different. how is that saying you condone rape?

How about YOU stop being so emotive? I gave you a website to look at, veterans against war, did you get a chance to have a look at it?

No? Didnt think so.

OP posts:
LadyBeagleEyes · 14/08/2013 12:23

*sorry, men and women.

MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:23

The way to begin such a discussion is by stating - -

'I believe that due to the nature of army training and the lack of care further up the chain, those in the forces are more likely to perpetrate violent attacks, and their colleagues are less likely to report or stop such attacks.'

Followed by statistics backing up this claim.

'What do you think about this, and what can be done?'

You might just get a different response than when you state that 'there are a proportion of people in the armed forces who enjoy raping and abusing people'

Amrapaali · 14/08/2013 12:23

Emotive language? Did you NOT read littlemiss' posts?

littlemisswise · 14/08/2013 12:24

filee they are not trained to be desensitised. My DH would never walk on by if he saw a someone being raped, abused, or harassed by anyone. Not in the street, not on deployement, not anywhere. That is because he is a decent human being, just like the vast majority of the population.

You cannot say there are more rapists/abusers in the Forces because there aren't.

Amrapaali · 14/08/2013 12:25

MmeLindor I see no difference. Potato, potah-to....

MmeLindor · 14/08/2013 12:26

No, I didn't have the chance to look at the website cause I am actually supposed to be working, and instead I am getting distracted by an argument on MN.

I have to bow out now - apologies if I misundestood that comment.

I do understand your point, and I share you misgivings but I think that you are going about this discussion in a way that is causing many posters distress.