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AIBU?

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Original poster

To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

466 replies

Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 21:14

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

OP posts:
everlong · 10/08/2013 23:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 23:06

I think I will leave it for tonight - there are some excellent posts on here. If anyone does want it they can always ask for deletion/moving to elsewhere.

I will come back tomorrow (or try to I do have RL things to do) and see how its going then.

OP posts:
Caoilainn · 10/08/2013 23:07

They don't think it's selfish, they are just thinking there is no other way to make life right.
It appears to be selfish for those they leave behind, but at the time life is overwhelming with no easy way out.

everlong · 10/08/2013 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutragedFromLeeds · 10/08/2013 23:08

'the thought of suicide comforts me. The thought that I don't have to face anything I don't want to, that I could just leave it all'

I've never really been suicidal or depressed, but I also find that a very comforting thought when times are hard. I also think about how/what would be the most painless way etc. I've never come anywhere close to doing it, but it's definitely comforting to know the option is there.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/08/2013 23:08

I really hope that MN will think about a campaign against MN stigma. You only have to look at this thread to see that there are many people who are ignorant of the complexities of MH.

NicknameIncomplete · 10/08/2013 23:11

I am unsure if suicide itself is a selfish act but i do believe how it is done can be selfish. Jumping in front of a train for instance is very selfish as there is no consideration for the driver who has to witness that horrific event.

Original poster
Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 23:14

Again Nick doesnt really understand that someone who is suicidal cannot be rational enough to think this. Im sure if they were they would choose a less painful way to die !

OP posts:
candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/08/2013 23:17

My last post before I hit the hay....

We already know that parts of people's brains can 'switch off' and compartmentalise as a response to trauma e.g. repressed memories. When people who are mentally ill attempt suicide, often they cannot visualise/consider what will happen. Everything will appear out of context. They are often irrational and cannot be 'talked round'. This is mental illness.

Spikeytree · 10/08/2013 23:17

You can also become fixated on a way to die. For me it was drowning. I drive home from work past an old reservoir and it became very difficult not to just drown. I know full well that people will be better off without me, and the absolute comfort of just knowing that I could end it all was the only way to get through a day at work.

OutragedFromLeeds · 10/08/2013 23:18

coffee it's still selfish though. Putting a train driver through that is selfish. Is it the person's fault they are being selfish? No, they're incapable of rational thought (as you said).

JaceyBee · 10/08/2013 23:18

bababababoom - I work in mental health and for example, the number of suicides of people 'known' to us who committed suicide last year accounted for less than 10% of the overall suicides in the area. These figures are pretty standard all over. Of course there will be those who would meet criteria for a mental illness dx but weren't picked up but generally, most people who commit suicide do it because, at that time their distress is overwhelming and they are unable to tolerate it. People who've suffered some tragedy and can't see a way forward. Or people who, being of totally sound mind just decide that this life is not for them.

Whether its selfish or not, I don't think it is. I believe existentially we all have the right to decide when we leave this life. I'm just sorry that anyone feels the need to make that choice.

Leverette · 10/08/2013 23:20

This reply has been deleted

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candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/08/2013 23:21

If they can't access that part of their brain, then how are they being selfish?!

OutragedFromLeeds · 10/08/2013 23:24

'If they can't access that part of their brain, then how are they being selfish?!'

The act is selfish, it causes only upset and pain for everyone else. The selfish behaviour is cased by mental illness and is therefore not their fault.

Spikeytree · 10/08/2013 23:25

I remember sitting in my GP's consulting room and having a perfectly rational (or so it seemed to me at the time) conversation about suicide. I felt like I was watching myself arguing that it wasn't illegal anymore and therefore he had no right to inform the crisis team of my intentions etc. We argued around in a quite abstract way and he was doing the 'think of your family and friends' thing and I was telling him matter of factly that I was too horrible to have friends and too much of a burden to my family, that I was rubbish and caused trouble. I even told him it was a waste of NHS resources to be having the conversation.

Being older and wiser now I still feel the same but wouldn't admit it to anyone in real life.

bustraintram · 10/08/2013 23:25

I think it is very selfish when they do it on the rail network. The poor train driver has to live with his actions for the rest of his life and it was not his fault at all. There have even been cases of ruined careers or drivers themselves committing suicide after hitting someone.

Also, somebody has to scrape the bits off! It causes delays upwards of three hours and costs the country £500,000 every time it happens, which in my view should be deducted from the deceaseds estate

WMittens · 10/08/2013 23:27

Jumping in front of a train for instance is very selfish as there is no consideration for the driver who has to witness that horrific event.

Putting a train driver through that is selfish.

Again, not cut and dry, it depends on the driver - five of my friends are train drivers, and at least three of them have stated they wouldn't mind a suicide, as it gives them a guaranteed 6 months (or something like that) off work at full pay. Obviously they may feel differently in the actual event, who knows.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2013 23:27

I well and truly hope the two MNers I know who are bereaved parents by suicide don't fucking see this. It's actually making me sick.

'Being a mother, I can begin to understand the utter devestation and the feeling that you cant go on without your only child, but OTOH, she left her already heartbroken husband and family, who had already had to deal with the long manhunt and subsequent finding of the girl dead, to deal with this further horrible tragedy. '

No, no you can't. You cannot even begin to understand the absolute pain and agony that is losing a child. Be very, very, very, very fucking glad for that before laying anymore fucking blame at her door and even beginning to speak of how her family feels.

mignonette · 10/08/2013 23:32

A patient who goes on to kill themselves because of command hallucinations/ third person persecutory hallucinations telling them to do so is not acting out of selfishness. They are not acting rationally and egotistical drives are not a factor in this respect. Absolute nonsense to say that suicide is 'always' a selfish act. It usually is not. However it may be perceived as such by those left behind to live with the consequences. And I speak as a RMN of many years experience.

Mumofthreeteens · 10/08/2013 23:33

I was 12 when my df committed suicide by taking an overdose. The pain is still there and it'll be 40 years later on this year. He had financial problems and not the happiest of marriages but did not have a mental illness per se. Suicide is like throwing a pebble into a pond the effects of his actions just rippled outwards and affected so many people. It was a selfish act.

Something I try to instill into my kids is that no matter how bad things seem there is always light at the end of the tunnel and suicide is not the answer.

As for children/teenagers; well that is something completely different. Truly heartbreaking. Some just don't have the maturity or coping mechanisms to to deal with overwhelming painful situations or understand that things will get better. They also live in a very different world to that of my generation growing up. Mental illness is different as well. My df was unable to cope with the situation he was in and took the 'easy' way out. He didn't leave a note or say goodbye. I have no idea what he thought about as his life was slipping away. I'm thankful that he chose not to kill himself at home. My school friend's mother did. She found her overdosed in bed when she was 15.

I wonder why nowadays people choose to hang themselves. It is such a violent, shocking end. How would you as a parent/child or loved one ever get over finding them?

Original poster
Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 23:34

To me to be selfish is a knowing act - if you cannot understand/know then you cant be selfish as such.

OP posts:
candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/08/2013 23:34

Expatinscotland is obviously in my brain tonight.

mignonette · 10/08/2013 23:35

Sadly there is not always light at the end of the tunnel. Not for some.

Looster · 10/08/2013 23:35

YANBU. My best friend committed suicide, I found her. I've thought about it a lot, struggled with it a lot, read about suicide a lot.

I cannot get my head around her decision, leaving behind two beautiful children. If I try to apply my non suicidal logical decision making mind to her suicide, it was selfish. I cant get into her mindset, I cannot imagine taking my life in any circumstances, so to me, if I think about doing that it seems selfish. - but she wrote me a long letter, and in her poorly sick mind and body she was in the middle of the perfect storm and was doing the best thing for everybody in taking herself out if the equation Confused - it kills me, how wrong she was. But I don't think her decision was selfish. RIP my friend.