To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

[Coffeenowplease]

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

I personally viewed my mum as selfish. She did it while we were at school and the youngest was at afternoon nursery. If my aunt hadn't have randomly decided to visit my mum then it would have been me finding her then having to get dad home and get kids picked up from school.

Instead as I got home I saw her been taken by an ambulance. My dad was there as he was luckily working a couple of streets away and I had to go pick my siblings up, feed them while avoiding questions about where mum and dad were. I wasn't sure myself!

We don't talk about it now but it doesn't mean I dont worry if my phone goes off at night. I worry every phone I get is someone telling me she has done it again and worse she has succeeded.

To me my mum was fine. There were no signs of mental illness but it has left me with this constant fear. I dont ask for her help as I feel I need to be able to deal with things alone as she might not be around long.

So saying thinking its selfish might seem idiotic to some but that was my view at 15.

Why is it different for a teenager ? An older person may not have the coping mechanisms either ! Age, having children or whatever does not mean you can "control" suffering better.

expat I am a suicide attempter, a mother and someone who has suffered a prenatal loss (though not concurrently) and no, I cannot understand that loss at all and I would never claim nor hope to be able to.

Apologies as I haven't read the whole thread.

Imo its not a selfish act.

3 1/2 years ago I was ths close (imagine my fingers mm apart) to committing suicide. I had severe depression, which had got worse as I had hidden it for about 2 years, and my ex had just left me.
I'd just been diagnosed with the depression, and the meds the gp put me on can increase suicidal tendancies. As I hadn't previously had these, the meds were deemed ok for me.

Well, I ended up sitting on the sofa with all my ads )a few weeks worth) and all my painkillers next to me. The plan was to swallow them all.

I genuinely believed that everyone would be better off without me. Especially my dc. I honestly thougt that their lives would be better if I wasn't around.

It was the thought that they would find me in the morning that stopped me. So I put the tablets away, and decided to ask my Mum to have the dc overnight as soon as possible, then I could end it all.

When I woke up in the morning, I did indeed write a text mum asking her to have them asap. Then just before I sent it, I realised what I was planning, and instead phoned my friend who came straight round, made an emergwncy gp app, and got my meds changed. I will be grateful to her forever.

I genuinely believed that what I was planning was the best for everyone, and was far from selfish. Although, I can only speak for myself.

That was to altinkum!

Although, otoh, has anyone read No Greater Love by Danielle Steele? It's about a family, and the Mum chooses not to get off the Titanic as she can't bear to live without her husband. As a result her 5dc become orphans. I always thought she was selfish.

Altinkum sorry about what you have to live with but you do not understand all mental illnesses. They are not all the same as your Mothers. A person in the grip of florid delusions does not know suicide as an easy way out. Often they do not even recognise what they are doing (especially if down to command hallucinations). I know this from working with patients with severe and florid psychosis who have experienced failed attempts at suicide. They do not know that. I too have witnesses it on a subjective and objective level and when you are emotionally close to it, you cannot always see the issues clearly. You cannot generalise.

such terribly sad experiences on here :( so much pain and sadness

i had suicidal thoughts when i was pregnant but it was thankfully not for long i was going through a very difficult time and could not see light at the end of the tunnel

but the thought of feeling that way now i just can't or even worse the pain i would cause my ds is something i do not want to think about as it is far too upsetting. feeling that way, or having to deal with being left in such a terrible way is beyond what i can imagine

I think some people who commit suicide are selfish, for example, the story earlier about the bloke who was having an affair & committed suicide when the OW's DH found out. He couldn't face his family, so he committed suicide. How is that anything other than selfish??

However, I think the vast majority of people who commit suicide genuinely believe their children/spouse/family/friends would be better off without them - you can't say they are selfish :(

Bullied teenagers who can't see a way out of it - how can you say they are selfish?

Only just seeing this thread for the first time and I find it strange that people can see suicide as a selfish act. Everyone has hard times in their life and most people get through these times without feeling the need to take their lives. I know a lot of people who have suffered from periods of depression and come through the other side of it.

To get to that point where you want to take your own life means that either something really shit has happened or you are properly ill and I can't believe an act of suicide would be borne out by anything other than desperation.

it is obvious from Altinkum's post that she is having to deal with a very difficult situation and the impact her mother has on her family life must be very very hard (understatement)

i am sure she is aware of mh issues she is having to deal with it but in her experience having to live with someone who is suicidal is selfish

terrible situation to be in at least try to show her some empathy

I should go to bed instead of wasting time on ignorant people who claim to know about mental illness when they are making assumptions based on their limited experience and emotions. Those of us who have personally been through severe mental illness and have teetered on the edge do seem to understand as do many other sensitive individuals on this thread. Unless you have literally been there or are a MH expert, don't pretend you have even the faintest clue of what people are thinking because you don't.

I'd love one of the "suicide is selfish crew" to tell my mum who nearly lost her psychotic 18 year old that her daughter was being selfish because my lovely gentle mum would probably lamp you one!

mignonette but there might be....

Yes there might be Mumofthree but my posts are directed towards the absolutists maintaining that suicide is always a selfish act which is not true.

candy Altinkum is living through it too and that showed in her post

that is how she is feeling and it is understandable why it is hard for her to be objective

this subject will bring up a lot of strong feelings and emotions based of peoples experiences

With you, candy, and the two MNers I know who lost their children through suicide.

Having experienced two people close to me, in very different circumstances commit suicide, I think it is impossible to generalise. One was - objectively - a selfish act because he did it knowing he would be found by his 11 yo son and leaving a horrible horrible letter for his wife which blamed her. The other,less so.

But what I do know is that viewing it in terms of selfishness is a road to nowhere. Because in terms of coming to terms with it as someone left behind you have to find it in you to forgive the person and also yourself. In the second case, the person had spent years dealing with very serious mental illness. We have all found peace by coming to view it as a "she stayed as long as she could."

You may be 'expert' upon your own personal experiences but generalising personal experience towards all others with mental illness and labelling them all 'selfish' and cognizant of what they are doing is inaccurate. It helps perpetuate prejudice too.

She isn't trying to be right, Boozy. She is trying to show sensitivity to those who have been bereaved through suicide.

Wow. This thread is a real eye-opener and brings back all the things we deal with as bereaved parents go through on a daily basis.

I can only imagine what it is like for those who have lost their child through suicide, it's shit enough having lost mine to cancer.

Most people cannot possibly imagine the absolute hell and suffering that a person with severe and enduring psychotic illness suffers.

oh dear. No. of course it isn't a seflish act.

The problem is asking a lot of nasty fuckers on MN for their opinions.

Commiting suicide is an act of absolute desperation.
The desire to survive is surpassed by fear of living.
No one wants to be that desperate.

If being terrified is selfish, then they clearly are.

{{Expat}}

Isn't it a shame that it is always the bereaved parents who have lost their children through whatever cause who can manage compassion for other people in extreme situations - but it is always the fuckheads who have never had to deal with anything difficult who think they have a right to judge?