To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

[Coffeenowplease]

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

It depends how you define "selfish" really. Googling for a definition gave me this:

self·ish

Adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
Synonyms
egoistic - self-seeking - self-centered

So based on that, YANBU and suicide does not fit that definition.

YANBU. I have truly wanted to die as I felt my children would be better off without me, and everyone would.

Please bear in mind when posting on this thread that it may well be read by those more or less recently bereaved by suicide who may or may not be in a position to accept hearing their much-loved and missed ones branded as selfish. Myself, I am inclined to feel only those directly affected have a right to judge - and their judgement will vary because each case will be complex and different.

I am sure none of the posters on this thread wish to cause further grief to those bereaved in this way.

I think hard is right insofar as assisted suicide is different. People who want it invariably talk through and reason out with their loved ones why they want to do it. I imagine, given the kind of illnesses/conditions usually involved that their families understand.

People with mental illnesses who commit suicide are not selfish, they are unwell. Their brain chemistry is fucked up. Many people who commit suicide genuinely believe that they are being selfish by staying alive and that is it less selfish to remove themselves permanently from the world.

Eh? That's the point though coffee you started by saying they are all ill and are now saying we can't know..........

I don't think "selfish" is the right word for it though, thinking about it.

A couple of family member have committed suicide. The aftermath is difficult to describe. Just tragic for everyone involved.

If the suicidal person has children that aren't adults then YABVU!... It is extremely selfish to commit suicide with Children involved!

I've had some shit thrown at me through life and have had suicidal thoughts, BUT everytime I have thought of my very dear children! And I'm still here better than ever right now actually :)

I can't imagine why anyone would put themselves before their children, especially if the outcome was going to be as catastrophic as a parent commuting suicide.

In other terms, a depressed, possibly single, depressed individual with not much to live for, well I can see why they would unfortunutly, and I wouldn't call that selfish.

What Expat said (and Spikeytree, FairyLea and others).
If you do it because you sincerely believe your family would be better off without you, I don't see how it is selfish. It's fucked up and wrong, but it's not selfish.

Thank you, 123, very good point. I am a bereaved parent, although not by suicide, but friends with those whose child ended his/her own life. None of them finds that child selfish, they just wish they were never so ill and want them back. I wish I could give them back.

We accept that some physical conditions can't be cured, correct? They may be able to be managed to a greater or lesser extent but if you have one of these conditions you will always have it and will never be cured.

Let's say you have one of these conditions and despite your best attempts to manage it, you can't. You live every day in agonising pain. People may or may not try to help but seeing you in such pain is upsetting for them. Would you really judge a person for wanting out of that life?

Yet for some reason people won't accept the same for some mental health conditions, that some people live every day with agonising pain of depression, cripplingly low self-esteem, loneliness, isolation, flashbacks to abuse. For some reason, where MH is concerned, there's always a "cure" and I have been here long enough to have seen anyone who ventures to say anything about depression being sternly told to Get Help. If only it were that easy! And there is no guarantee of the "help" working, even if someone does seek it.

I'm not depressed but quite frankly no one would miss me if I died, not really, and if I ever go back to where I was, mental health wise, I will make a judgement on what is best for me.

Oh and people don't throw themselves under trains to say "fuck you" to the world, they do it because they know it will work.

Commuting? Ermm committing... damn phone

Sorry that wasnt quite clear was it ?

I said (probably wrongly as it may not apply to everyone) people who commit suicide are ill.

Someone (sorry cant scroll back laptop is a pain) said not everyone is ill

I should have said this :

" I conceed the point that not everyone is ill but I wonder how we define being ill when it comes to suicide - is the act itself enough to determine someone as mentally ill ?
Or if not , then how do we know one way or the other (which is why I shouldn't have said everyone in my above statement)."

Im sort of thinking aloud here, im sorry it may not be all that clear !

'If the suicidal person has children that aren't adults then YABVU!... It is extremely selfish to commit suicide with Children involved!

I've had some shit thrown at me through life and have had suicidal thoughts, BUT everytime I have thought of my very dear children! And I'm still here grin better than ever right now actually smile

I can't imagine why anyone would put themselves before their children, especially if the outcome was going to be as catastrophic as a parent commuting suicide.'

What a terrible thing to say! Those people are so so so very ill that they see their children as better off without them in their lives.

so, many moons ago I tried but failed to commit suicide. I do have a mental illness (bipolar) and I cant tell you exactly why I wanted it all over other than life seemed unbearable and me unable to do anything to improve it for myself or others. Not sure I'd call the younger me selfish just very very very misguided.
and ill.

It is selfish because they are doing what they feel they need to do, but it isn't their fault. In the cases of assisted suicide of course it's selfish to want to be free of pain but what on earth is wrong with that kind of selfishness? Who could judge someone for that? Being selfish sometimes is totally understandable

People with dementia can be terribly selfish but again it is not their fault it's not a judgement just a fact

Sometimes people who commit suicide genuinely feel that people would be better off without them.

My BIL committed suicide 5 weeks ago. As a family, we are struggling to come to terms with it. He had no history of mental illness at all, and no-one can see a reason why. My FIL and I were talking last night out BIL. We think what he has done is selfish, but not maliciously. My MIL is utterly crushed and is heading for a breakdown. My DH has lost his little brother. My DCs have lost their cool, fun uncle.

So, sorry. I think YABU. I don't mean that nastily. I just want my BIL back.

about not out BIL.

But NandH

A person with a family can be just as ill as someone without. I dont see how it makes them more selfish as a parent than a single person to be so unwell as to not comprhend the effect it might have.

Your post is actually the sort of comment I was attempting to highlight in my OP but like I often do I made a bit of a ball of explaining myself.

I'm so sorry woof, how terrible for all of you

Yanbu.

I have been suicidal, I truely truely believed that my children and family would be so much better off without me, horrible illness, thankfully im on the other side, still on meds though.

*balls of. Christ I cannot type well either it seems.

So sorry about your BIL, Woofsaidtheladybird.