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Original poster

To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

466 replies

Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 21:14

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

OP posts:
HorryIsUpduffed · 13/08/2013 18:07

No, there's no such rule, but like I said it tends to be prudent, as you discovered.

LookingThroughTheFog · 13/08/2013 18:13

Bongo, huge sympathies to what you went though. I'm so glad you're in a better place now.

bongobaby · 13/08/2013 18:23

Zing,
The ultimate selfish act
At 14 I didn't think so, my only thoughts was to not be here anymore.

LEMisdisappointed · 13/08/2013 18:25

United I am sorry but i cannot see the point of coming onto a sensitive thread like this with such a blanket statement if you are not willing to explain actually. By all means you are entitled to your opinion and entitled not to explain, however your comment is upsetting as it stands so if you were not willing/able to explain it then it would have been more sensible not to post at all.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 18:27

bongo
I am truly sorry for what you have gone through.

I really can't say anymore without giving out things I don't want to talk about.

LookingThroughTheFog · 13/08/2013 18:30

Bongo, it was not selfish. It really wasn't.

Please try not to be upset by it. I think Zing is a good example a lot of people out there; I have decided, I will not listen, I am not prepared to learn, I cannot see another viewpoint, I will not bend.

It's hard, but it's why the work of people upthread, particular those training people now, is so desperately important.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 18:30

LEM do you not get that I posted that one line in response to OP and after reading first few pages?

I've said sorry about upsetting people and I meant it.

but I will not explain myself

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 18:31

Fog I'm glad you know me so wellConfused

everlong · 13/08/2013 18:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LEMisdisappointed · 13/08/2013 18:35

I am sure we all have our experiences on this thread and have been affected in one way or another, i certainly wouldn't expect anyone to share more than they are comfortable with United and I am sorry if you have painful memories xx

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 18:36

LEM thanks

I'm glad you could read through the lines.

LookingThroughTheFog · 13/08/2013 19:00

My apologies, Zing. I was only going on what you had said on this thread.

bongobaby · 13/08/2013 19:05

Everlong, Looking, thank you.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 19:05

thanks Fog

I kept on saying I can't share why.

ChippingInHopHopHop · 13/08/2013 19:14

I am at a loss for words really (and those that know me, know how rare that is).

Looking - I don't know how to phrase what I want to say to you, I really don't. I have read each of your posts thinking 'fucking hell - really??' That's well beyond the 'blackness' I imagined when people spoke of it. You really are incredible to have fought that and to still be here. It breaks my heart that I (or anyone else) can't do something that will stop you feeling that way and to prevent it being too much for you. What you said to your DH... I hope that this thread has (as you said before) somehow given you a bit of 'extra protection' - I would give a lot up if I could give you more.

Mumof2 - I was on your thread when James died and have read various posts since then and everytime the way you write about your boys gets me. My heart hurts so much for you and so much for you missing that last hour with James - we can't know what's around the corner and you know what, most of the time that's a good thing. Both of your boys are amazing young men and the love they have for each other is a credit to you.

Too many people to namecheck... but I have read every post and I am overwhelmed by emotion. Lots of love being sent out (and a few slaps). I wish there was more I could do, that society could do, that someone/something could do...

LookingThroughTheFog · 13/08/2013 20:59

Chipping, thank you. If it helps, I'm lucky enough to have a support network here, plus doctors, nurses, medication and yet more therapy. I'm bloody lucky. Before Christmas I was looking at the possibility of private therapy, which was unfortunately out of my budget, but I've now been approved for some further work on the NHS. So yeah, I really can't complain. I feel very lucky.

Latara, sorry it's taken an age to come back to you (it's been a bit of a day), but I wanted to say, if you're still regularly suicidal on your antidepressants, could you perhaps discuss this with your doctor? I'm not an expert, but I wonder if there's something more they can do - either a switch to another type, or a tweak of the dose.

Latara · 13/08/2013 21:34

Thank you Looking I think it's probably the Anti-Psychotics I take that need to be increased; but they make me drowsy and overweight so I will have to think carefully about It before discussing it with the psychiatrist.

As I said before I don't think suicide or ANY act can be selfish when a person is in a state 'not of sound mind'.

LackingEnergy · 13/08/2013 22:56

It may not be entirely selfish when a suicidal person is 'not of sound mind' but then is every suicidal person not of sound mind? If you are terminally ill you are not automatically 'of unsound mind' and a completely rational decision to end your life before you become too ill seems quite logical to me. There are some types of suicide that you would be hard pressed to claim to be anything other than at the very least more selfish than others.

Any form of suicide or attempted suicide that involves using other people as a means to an end is selfish. If you jump in front of a car, drive your car into on coming traffic or a train etc you are taking other peoples lives into your hands. They may well die or suffer from life changing injuries, not being of sound enough mind should not be used as an excuse in that sort of situation.

I'm going to lump leaving a disturbing/more distressing than necessary scene for people to find into being more selfish (as this is what I have experience of, I was quite young and didn't receive a lot of help to 'deal' with it). Will you have no idea how your decision in that moment affects others. I strongly suspect that you'd be at the very least sad that the 'release' you found sent someone you loved into a downward spiral where the 'release' you found is all they can think about.

If I upset anyone then I apologise Flowers but it can, in my mind, never be a selfless act as there is always an element of 'self'

I had a massive panic attack shortly after having ds. My cousin committed suicide years ago, my sister has tried at least twice in the years after she found him and I thought what if life suddenly gets too much and overwhelms me. I have this beautiful boy, what if I'm not good enough. I over compensate a lot for those thoughts, no matter how briefly they were entertained or how convinced Dh is that they were nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to my Dsiss last suicide attempt (a few days before I went into labor).

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/08/2013 23:52

This reply may upset or Hurt or anger people - and I'm sorry if it does :(

As I said previously my dh committed suicide nearly 2.5yrs ago

He hung his self and I found him

I was told many times that he meant to die and wanted to die - rather then a cry for help - coz of his method

Hanging is final - no chance of come back - death is quick as to be blunt the neck snaps

People who take tablets /slot wrists / etc do not want to truly die - they are begging for help

I was told the above by coroners - doctors - counsellors - cruse

ClaraOswald · 14/08/2013 00:00

Blondes- was it really that long ago? It doesn't seem like weeks have passed since you posted about him.

:(

Blondeshavemorefun · 14/08/2013 00:07

Sadly yes Clara - 16th April 2011 - well guess to be precise 2 1/4yrs

I still rem all the love and support and of courses amazing woolly hugs blanket so many of you contributed to

I also got left a note - it was final - dh wanted to die - had enough of life - and I don't think he was selfish

I've never been angry - tho had other emotions - how can I be angry at someone I loved so much (together 19yrs) who thought the only way out of his pain torment desperation was to kill hisself :(

NewAtThisMalarky · 14/08/2013 00:12

I disagree with the idea that if someone is not of sound mind it can't be a selfish act.

If someone not of sound mind perpetrates an assault, it is still a violent act. If they shoplift, it is still theft.

Not being of sound mind doesn't change the nature of the act. It does, however, change the level of culpability.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 14/08/2013 08:53

Blondes my heart goes out to you. Flowers

I know you said you were told the following "People who take tablets /slot wrists / etc do not want to truly die - they are begging for help" and I've heard it from professionals too but I wish people (especially professionals!) wouldn't say that because it's harmful. I know several people who have taken their own lives via those methods. I spent considerable time in a psychiatric hospital, so have heard some harrowing stories.

fabergeegg · 14/08/2013 13:04

Newatthismarlarky - This has been dealt with a couple of pages back, by myself and others. It was agreed that discussing semantics was not the most appropriate way of dealing with a thread that now is being read by many people who are in a vulnerable place.

blondeshavemorefun - I'm so sorry for your loss and the suffering it has entailed for you. I have also heard the views you've expressed from health professionals, although I'm not sure of the relevance to the topic here. Like others, I've spoken to people who have attempted suicide in many different ways. Although what you've said can be true, suicidal people are not always in the best position to decide on the most efficient way of doing anything. I speak as someone who has 'done time' in a psychiatric unit.

unlucky83 · 14/08/2013 14:59

This thread is actually making me worry a bit...but not being a MH care professional I won't pretend to know ..I might be wrong...
Not thinking about families bereaved by suicide, for who I can see this thread is incredible helpful.
But if someone is contemplating suicide, battling against the urge and reads this -will it not seem to be saying it is ok -your family will all be ok?

I know Looking said she found it helpful -another layer of support but someone with less experience (if that is right word - really shit thing to be Sad Looking Flowers), not thinking rationally...

I don't know - it is just making me feel uncomfortable ...(it is making me feel less safe...) I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else...

Don't think it should be deleted because really good to talk about it etc...I keep thinking about this thread - I just don't know -I'm just uneasy
Maybe a title change and moved somewhere more sensitive?

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