To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

[Coffeenowplease]

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

"I think it comes down to if you haven't experienced it, you can't understand it".

So true.

As a teenager I spent a lot of time with some very troubled friends. Not one was selfish, or self absorbed. Not all are still here. I will never forget them, or their demons, and will fight for their right to be thought of as people who were troubled, not selfish or attention seeking.

"All the person thinks about is how they are feeling and how they are suffering and sometimes it's only the thought of the impact on those left behind that makes them stop."

So wonderful that you know exactly what that person is feeling! How terribly clever of you.

Look at all these armchair psychiatrists on here and we've just had a thread about that but still, some of you know better!

WMittens I do get that in his mind it was not selfish and he really did think we would be better off without him.

However, his idea of 'better off' was such a vague nebulous thing - no concrete examples of what would be better without him there.

Financially? No. Emotionally? No. Practically? No.

The older DC's knew at the time that he was poorly, and that being poorly made him sad and grumpy. They still wanted to bike ride with him, and get help with their homework, and snuggle up on the sofa to watch a film, and walk to school with him etc etc etc. How could he think that they would not miss all that, and all the normal daily interactions?

to want to die regardless of what physical or emotional pain you are in, to prefer to end you life rather than see your children smile again, grow into adults you have to be in a very very dark place

no i do not think anyone who commits suicide is selfish just in a place where i never want to be

but i would never tell someone that has been left behind that their parent/child/partner/sister and so on was not selfish because to them they may be i would hope one day they could forgive them

"im not ignoring anything, i'm reminded of it daily... did you miss the bit where i said it was my cousin who killed himself?"

That does not make you an expert.

"People who really, really want to die rarely. if ever, give you the opportunity to tell them they're being selfish."

Which is evidenced by this ridiculous and dangerous statement.

Some people commit suicide to protect others around them. It can be a selfless act of love. They may feel a burden, they may worry about harming someone, they may feel they don't deserve to live or others would be better off without them.

Those who commit suicide are not always acting in their own self interests with no thought for others; it can be the reverse.

Coffeenowplease I know your intentions were genuine but I am concerned about this thread and that there could be vulnerable people reading it and feeling very bad about themselves. There are some really dim statements being made and they can be dangerous such as; people who really want to die just go and do it etc.

Ok, so I'm going to do what I hate other people doing and say I haven't RTFT properly.

I will say as someone who has tried (thankfully unsuccessfully obviously) and someone who has seen this happen that YANBU and YABU.

Yes, sometimes its a sign of a mental illness and people are trapped and see no other way out. I was once among them and I feel nothing but the greatest sympathy for them.

But those who make others cause their deaths are selfish. I've seen people who've 'killed' people committing suicide. Whilst I understand the mindset and have great sympathy, those who force others to essentially kill them are selfish. Their actions have far wider reaching consequences they don't care about.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is a right and wrong way to kill yourself at all but I am saying its harder to feel sympathy for those who put pain on others in order to achieve their own wishes.

I think it can be somewhat selfish, or poorly thought through (to say the least) - but as with most criticisms that we level at people there are usually reasons behind it eg. how many people are really just lazy without having some underlying issues ? And the same with being selfish. So, it's probably not a very helpful word to use, although very understandable if family and friends are angry with the person who has done this.

Im with the YABUs tbh.
Selfish but not always in a way that can be helped.
We live very close to the place where a local girl died a few years back in a train accident. Her family were quite obviously devastated. Her mother later committed suicide in the same spot by throwing herself under a train.
Being a mother, I can begin to understand the utter devestation and the feeling that you cant go on without your only child, but OTOH, she left her already heartbroken husband and family, who had already had to deal with the long manhunt and subsequent finding of the girl dead, to deal with this further horrible tragedy.
My aunt, who had been living and successfully dealing with mental illness for years, lost her mother. She totally fell apart, stopped getting treatment, ostracised her family, broke up her marriage and subsequently killed herself. Leaving a trail of confusion, anger and guilt behind her.
I understand that she felt this was the way out, but, with a long, long history of successful treatment and a successful career helping others get treatment, she knew that there was help available and she still took her life.
When a person commits suicide, their suffering ends, but everyone elses just begins. Someone finds them, someone has to break the news. Everyone grieves. All of their loved ones have to go on, with this huge hole in their lives, and a feeling that they could have done something more.

Candy you have raised a very good point. Im actually quite ashamed to say that hadn't occurred to me.

I was hoping for a discussion but there do seem to be some quite vile opinions on here and I would hate to upset someone vulnerable or cause anyone to feel worse due to what someone has said.

Im not sure what do do now actually. Ive found it helpful/interesting useful to hear other opinions on this but I also dont want it to cause upset to someone struggling.

yop I do think suicide is selfish - have posted on the thread to say so, but that comment is not at all helpful. If my DH had gone ahead and killed himself do you think I would have been happier? a better parent? better at my job? Do you think anything would have improved in my situation at all?

Exactly Candy Do you think I should ask for this to be deleted ?

I feel almost like its giving in though. You know because people post horrible things, so we go away. Rather than make any progress.

Maybe it could be moved?

We do need to address the MH stigma. I wish MN would do a campaign rather than let disablist posts stay.

YA absolutely, definitely, 100% NBU and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand.

People who commit suicide often have thinking processes so distorted that they genuinely think they are doing the best thing for the people around them. Or at the very least, believe they can make a quiet exit without a fuss. They don't have the capacity to think about the devastation they leave behind.

Are there people who kill themselves who are not mentally ill? I don't believe so. I don't believe it is a selfish act. Tragic, with profound consequences for those left behind, yes - but selfish, no. Desperate, or misguided, the result of an illness, yes.

To where though ?

Believe otherwise if it comforts you.

I don't really think about the selfishness or unselfishness of it; it's not that that comforts me - the thought of suicide comforts me. The thought that I don't have to face anything I don't want to, that I could just leave it all. Every day for the last 2 or 3 years, I've imagined committing suicide - it helps me deal with the stress, knowing I could just get out. A variety of ways, some plausible, some not so; some planned, researched timelined and budgeted.

I have no one I'd be leaving behind, so is it selfish? I have no connections here, no one who is concerned about me, no one who will be affected if I exit - where's the selfishness?

No don't ask for it to be deleted. It's a sensitive topic, but I don't think never discussing it is helpful. Most posts here are thoughtful and considered, a few less so, but nothing 'beyond the pale' imo. The thread title makes it clear what it's about. It's easy to avoid/hide if it may upset you.

the vast majority of people who commit suicide have a history of mental illness. being suicidal is a mental illness

how can it be a selfish act when you are ill, when you thought process is not normal

i know not everyone that commits suicide does have a history of mental illness but at that point in time something very wrong is going on in their head and it is likely they have hidden their depression from others

like i said before those close they have left behind have every right to feel they were being selfish they are left behind to deal with the pain those on the outside no we should have more of an understanding that they were not of well mind

and yop your post regarding young people attention seeking shows you have no understanding of mental illness

Yop yes because me and my 4 siblings plus our dad would have been better off without my mum.

You don't think calling mentally ill people is pathetic??!!