To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

[Coffeenowplease]

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

Probably the thread is nearing its end?
And I would have thought that the posters left behind on here are not saying that everythink is ok exactly. But that they are grieving.

Unlucky I am a MH professional and discussing suicide with a suicidal person will not increase the likelihood of their enacting their plans.

The best way to increase isolation is to avoid the subject, and push it away to a 'hidden corner' of the internet or wherever. Better that all MH issues are brought into the light so everyone can see how everyday they actually are.

I would urge anybody affected by what they read here to contact the Samaritans, link here, The League of Compassionate Friends here, Cruse here or their GP/CPN/Care Coordinator or Mind. There is always somebody there to listen.

Fabergeeg, you may have agreed that, but I think it is always good to be clear on what you mean, if there is a possibility that it might be taken another way.

I also think people need to know that if someone disagrees with the op, it doesn't necessarily mean they are saying any individual is selfish. There are people on here that seem to think its the same thing, and its not.

Thanks - Mignonette

Links to RL help -think the thread was missing that...

My concern is not 'talking about' suicide though - it is the bereaved families understanding that worries me ...I guess...but then the grief and pain is also apparent ...

Just thinking how it would have affected me if I read it in a mentally different place -which bit of the message I would have picked up on - but I guess it is impossible to know when not actually there...(and hopefully I will never be there again...)

I think that the word selfish is an inappropriate word when discussing suicide. It is unhelpful, inaccurate and simplistic.

I can understand it being used by the bereaved who are angry and in pain, but our society should move on and display a little more understanding.

unlucky I queried similar concerns to yours with MNHQ, they commented and felt the thread should stay. The OP had good intentions, it just got a bit heated at times.

My sister took her own life 4 weeks ago. This was her third attempt. She hung herself.

We make a lot of judgements based on what we know - I 'know' I could not commit suicide because I couldn't do that to my children. However we also make judgements based on what we don't know - I don't know what it is like to feel such despair, hopelessness.

I have had dark moments in my life when I have wished that I could just disappear, but I could never translate those thoughts into the brutal act of killing myself.

Anyone contemplating or committing suicide must surely feel distress, fear, pain... Not things I would associate with being selfish.

My sister meant everything to me, I pray that she has found peace.

Faber - obv people die from other methods - I was trying to say (badly) that those who hung theirselves know there is no come back - it is final and death is normally within a few mins if both quicker - neck snaps :(

Where as say tablets and and slashing wrists take time and people can find them and sometimes revive then

Not explaining myself well. My dh meant to kill hisself. - he wanted out :(

Lablab - so sorry about your sister :(

LabLab

My deepest sympathies. . Please seek support from one of the services I linked to above. They will help you.

In general, suicide is an option taken by people who are really ill. Mental health has consequences which are incomprehensible to individuals who have not suffered this way.

You would not criticise a cancer patient for seeking treatment for their cancer. For an individual with a serious mental health condition (eg bi-polar), they may genuinely feel that taking their own life is the only 'treatment' for their condition. They may feel so worthless and such a burden to their family that this is a very real and tangible solution.

This is really hard to 'get' if you have not been there, but depression is a chemical imbalance that is as real as say a thyroid problem or diabetes....

Lablab - my mum took her life 5 years ago. My initial emotion was anger , and i did initially think it was a 'selfish act'. But after lots of thought and research - she was very poorly and this was a genuine solution in her mind. She was very sick and she died of that sickness.

It does get better. My memories now are mostly happy ones.

When I tried to kill myself, I felt several ways at once. Firstly, that I wasn't being at all selfish; I was actually do everyone a favour, because I was simply a problem, and to get rid of myself would be the best for everyone. I never considered that people might be sad. I also didn't want to die, necessarily... Just to make all the pain go away. If there had been a magic pill I could have taken to make myself cope with everything instead, I would have. On top of that I also just felt numb... And honestly so deep down in that pit of despair, my emotions were too much to deal with, I couldn't even register other people having any.

It possibly is selfish. But not intentionally so. You never kill yourself to upset other people. It isn't deliberately done like that.

I'm thinking about it again constantly at the moment; the only thing that stops me is DS.

As much as suicide is a self inflicted death... The causes of it mostly aren't. Mental illness - and suicide - are still taboo. So all the while the understanding of them is limited.

You can feel angry at someone for killing themselves, just as you can feel angry at someone for dying at all. But remember they didn't do it on purpose.

Looking - I'm glad you have got more support now, but it is still you that is dealing with this and I am in total awe of your fortitude. This bastard thing has been 'attacking' you for a very long time and you have defended yourself against it... you should be immensely proud of yourself

Blondes - it's hard to believe it has been over 2 years. I find time after a death is 'odd' - in some ways it passes all too quickly and you get further and futher away from the last time you were with them & yet in other ways it can still feel like yesterday. It is hard, so very very hard :( I think of you often x

Big hugs to everyone - whether you have been/are in a bad place or whether you have lost someone this way.

My father committed suicide, I call him brave, he had just been diagnosed with cancer, had his first round of Chemo and decided it wasn't for him. He called emergency services before he shot himself so my step mother wouldn't find him. As hard as it was, knowing my father like I did, this was the right decision for him, us kids were all grown up, he left my step mother quite comfortably off. I try not to dwell on how emergency services found him though.

SirBoob

I'm so sorry you are feeling that way!
it is a very complex emotional/mental situation you are in. it is a scary place to be.

I do hope you will get some help soon, there have been some links posted upthread of organisations you can contact.

again so sorry for all the losses and hurt.

Lablab, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope she found some peace too.