To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

[Coffeenowplease]

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

I don't think it is selfish but there is no escaping the devestating effects it has on families/loved-ones/friends and anyone else who is involved.

I have been suicidal or should i say, i was having suicidal thoughts, it scared me and i went to my doctors - she told me that she has had to help families affected by this and its one of the hardest parts of her job :( I don't know if i ever would have gone through with suicide but it is really that reason why i didn't actually do anything. HOWEVER, that could be just that i wasn't actually going to do it anyway because i can only imagine that people who go through with it are under the misconception that their families would be better off without them.

My cousin commited suicide about 30 odd years ago, i was only seven so only have vague recollection of the fall out - i remember there was lots of tears. However the fall out just goes on and on. His son had a nervous breakdown as an adult and has been in psychiatric care, on medication on and off for most of his adult life. His brother was a mess, ended up dead from a herion overdose after being in and out of prison his whole life (would he have been that way anyway - i don't know the answer to that) his children are now suffering the effects of his lifestyle and death. I don't believe my cousin was being selfish though but had he been of sound mind and could see the pain he would cause, he may not have done what he did. My cousin was mentally ill.

I also know of a man from my hometown who threw himself under a train, everyone was stunned and shocked, he was a lovely guy, happy (or so it would appear) with every reason to live, lovely family etc. This man was not mentally ill, he was having an affair and the woman's husband found out - he killed himself because he couldn't bear the thought of hurting his children He was a selfish man.

I find it so hard to believe anyone would be ok with their children to finding their body. Surly anyone who does that is not thinking rationally ?

I do take the point however about people likeduchess's mum saying they were doing it to teach someone a lesson, its just. I don't know it seems a long way to go and a huge risk to take to teach someone a lesson. Makes me wonder if the person had other problems. But I dont know and Im sure Duchess knows her own mum. Im sorry you had to deal with that.

I understand that it is incredibly hard, sad, for those left behind in the circumstances of a suicide. But you would consider someone who died under other circumstances to be 'selfish'?

Doesn't anyone consider the mental anguish that someone committing suicide suffers? Do you think that they just make a cup of tea one evening and then decide to end their own life?

* intentions weren't SELFISH, not desperate (???) Sorry!

v.interesting and thought provoking thread op.

YANBU I have said this many time.

From my experience it was the most selfless thing I did (obviously not successful) I was a burden to everyone, they would spend their lives worried about me. If I was to get married it would be a living hell for my husband and if I had kids what would they think of me, not being able to cope, been so sad about everything.
It would be easier in the long run.

That was my train of thought each time I tried to take my life. Yes I admit there was also the idea that it would be better for me too, but the overwhelming thought was how selfish it would be for me to live.

And I was right, it's bloody hard on everyone around me when I'm ill, my DH puts up with so much and hardly every snaps, but yes I do sometimes think he'd better off if he didn't have me to cause him stress and he didn't have to deal with the fallout of my MH issues. My parents worry about me so much, as do my aunt and uncle. It's hard for them to deal with it. That's not fair and they didn't ask for this.

Suicide hurts everyone so much and those left behind will never understand why they weren't "good enough" or "loved enough" for the person to stay and seek help. But it's the complete opposite, it's because we aren't good enough, it's because we love them so much that we don't want them to suffer any more.

I'm going to overshare here... But.. when I was poorly and felt suicidal, I was so poorly that I thought I was not there anymore and so I was just killing the body. I couldn't deal with being here and not being me, I was just a shell. Well, I didn't even try because I couldn't figure out a way that didn't involve my family finding a body. I am always glad that I thought of my family because I certainly wasn't thinking of myself. I'm very well now but I would never think less of someone who did it because I'm not them and I don't know what they are feeling. I think many people have walked a fine line at some point in their lives and we shouldn't judge others that don't do the same that we did/ do. It's not selfish.

If someone is ever in the position where the only way out appears to be taking their life, then I agree that they are not of sound mind, and therefore cannot be judged to be selfish. And I'm saying this as someone who has found the body after a suicide. Did I think they were selfish because of the trauma it caused me? No, I just felt terribly sorry for them.
Selfish is sitting on a train complaining about the impact on your own day when some poor soul feels they have no option other than to throw themselves in front of it.

Thank you seriously. I hope I have not upset anyone by posting in AIBU but its the one topic where I knew I would get very forthright opinions and, honestly if people want to disagree with me I want to know and I want to know WHY.

I feel this subject is important enough to be discussed in a larger topic even though it is a sensitive issue.

jammiedonut Sat 10-Aug-13 22:07:05

I agree. But equally someone in extreme physically pain is not of sound mind either. I suffered from gallstones and I was beside myself with agony, thank God for morphine. There are medications for physical pain not so much for emotional pain.

my step dads cousin killed himself when he lost his job, he left behind a wife and 2 young children. his wife then tragically lost her cancer battle a year later leaving their children orphans. she hated her husband with every breath she took. She felt he was selfish and her children who are teens now will never forgive him.

Boozy

You are ignoring the fact that most people genuinely believe that they are helping others by taking their own lives.

I really wish we had a rolling eyes smiley for shit like this.

To everyone who says it is a selfish act, what effect do you think an accusation of, "you're being selfish," does to someone who is suicidal?

You throw a guilt trip at someone who has possibly piled a mountain of guilt on to themselves.

They feel they have one option, the worst imaginable, but it can give a sense of safety, security to them (that may seem bizarre if you haven't experienced it); then you make them feel worse than they already do for having this safety net. Who's selfish now?

These people need help not condemnation.

Tough subject for me.

Woof I do feel for you and your family. It is a very hard thing to come to terms with.

My brother committed suicide 7 years ago.

Looking from the outside anyone would have thought he had everything going for him: Oxbridge graduate, 2 novels published, one a prize winner, (they were not bestsellers by any means, but still...) and a talented pianist. Other people thought very highly of him.

But. He felt worthless and a fraud and had felt that way for years. He had suffered from depression since before leaving school and had years of therapy.

One afternoon he must have thought he couldn't take any more and decided to end it. On a different day he might have gone out and had a few drinks and felt better. If someone had called him he might have paused and changed his mind. Who knows?

I don't feel that he was selfish. I have no idea what demons he was battling. I never had to live his life or feel his pain. I would not have wanted him to carry on living if he felt that he couldn't bear it.

It doesn't alter the fact that we all miss him and wish he had felt able to go on living. But I want to remember the good times we had and not spend years blaming him because he felt that his only option was to die.

It's taken me ages to type this. Sorry if the thread has moved on.

That's the thing Candycoated. When you feel suicidal you may feel so worthless that you convince yourself that everyone would be better off without you.

Having said that I'm very close to a family friend who is in her teens and whose mum died 4 years ago. The pain she feels every day due to missing her mum is so heartbreaking, friendship troubles, periods, prom, exam stress, shopping for clothes, every birthday and christmas all of these things make her miss her mum so terribly and she didn't have a choice. Spending time with her plus having a serious and frightening health problem myself made me realise that I would indeed have been very selfish to inflict that on my Dd. Imagining her missing me in the way my young friend misses her mum snapped me back to my senses.

My DH has been suicidal in the past. I think it is incredibly selfish - he kept saying the kids would be better off without him, but could not understand my counter argument that they would always wonder why they were not enough to keep him here.

I lived on absolute tenterhooks for over a year, worrying every time he was late home, or went out without saying where he was going or when he would be back.

He used to go mountain biking on his own and I was always worried about him taking too many risks, or staging an accident.

Even now, if something sets his depression off, it is always in the back of my mind, so yes, it is selfish - it is a big black cloud over us all the time.

Ask any police officer. Loads of (usually young) people commit suicide as a kind of extreme attention seeking. Suicide pacts, suicide 'scenarios' (carefully chosen music, notes, suicide tattoos, endless self-pitying ramblings on YouTube).

It's not always borne of despair. It's often borne of stupidity, thoughtlessness and - yes - selfishness.

Of course it's selfish. I've had personal experience of just such a situation which I'm not prepared to elaborate on and it is overwhelmingly selfish. All the person thinks about is how they are feeling and how they are suffering and sometimes it's only the thought of the impact on those left behind that makes them stop.

I have enormous sympathy for those who feel that it is the only solution to a desperate situation and lets face it some peoples lives are almost unbearable. I can't quite bring myself to condemn those who take that final step, but ultimately it's the family I feel the saddest for.

Its selfish because someone genuinely believes they are doing the right thing ? They cannot understand that their families will not be better without them ?

I just dont see it. I really dont.

Slightly on the fence. I have never felt suicidal, but have a friend who has recently attempted suicide - she seems to be "getting better" (not sure how to describe it really, so please can no one yell at me for the wrong words) with a lot of support from psychiatrists/family/friends/partner etc, but still a bit of a shock to the system, and has made us all more aware of things.

I acknowledge that most often (I don't know any stats on this) the person is question feels like the world will be better if they left it, and also often aren't in their right mind. However:

My big issue with it is illustrated by a case of about a decade ago (I think). A couple with three adult children committed suicide together after two of their children died (if I recall correctly, one suicide and one not). It was reported in the Times and there were quotations from friends/neighbours saying how devastated they had been by their loss. My main thought was "How dare you do that to your last remaining child?!" They had left one child who had already been suffering the loss of her siblings, to also mourn her parents. I can't imagine the pain the parents were going through due to the loss of their children, but I think they were outrageously self absorbed to have not thought of what their also committing suicide would do to their last child.

I really do feel that it is wrong, I'm afraid.

Some suicides can be thoughtless, those jumping under trains have no idea what it is like to be the person picking up the body pieces spread along a track, or finding a severed limb in your garden.

But they are not of sound mind at that point. Selfishness requires a degree of awareness around what they would do to those around them. Most probably couldn't see the immense distress they cause their loved ones.

My DH has been suicidal in the past. I think it is incredibly selfish - he kept saying the kids would be better off without him,

I think it comes down to if you haven't experienced it, you can't understand it.

Do you see the incongruence in that sentence? He's thinking about others being better off without him- that's not selfish; twisted logic, but not selfish in his mind.

He's feeling worthless and that he will have a negative effect on his children's lives.

All the person thinks about is how they are feeling and how they are suffering

You know what? Often it's because no one helps them overcome their suffering and they're left feeling completely alone.

When people die from a physical illness is that selfish? Because mental illness is just as real and sometimes the people suffering are left untreated, sometimes they seem fine and no one knows they're ill and sometimes no matter how much they want it they can't get the proper help. How can they survive without treatment/help?

I've felt suicidal but I didn't think it would hurt anyone - quite the opposite. I was a mistake from the day I was born, I just wanted to right wrongs. They'd get over it, and they'd be happy. I didnt think I had any right to be alive, I was just a leech.

Sure mental illness might not be the cause of suicide every time but how would you know? I didn't tell anyone how I felt, I didn't invite them to watch as I mutilated myself and I didn't tell them how scared I was.

That being said it dosent mean it hurts the people they left behind any less.

Have posted upthread about how I view my husband's suicide as a selfish act. That is my own personal opinion about his suicide and as the circumstances of every suicide are unique I can only comment about my own experiences not those of other people. I would never comment to any suicidal person that they were being selfish; I would be thankful that they felt able to let someone else know their state of mind which would hopefully enable them to receive help and prevent such a tragedy. If only my husband had felt able to tell one single other person that he was considering killing himself then it may have been averted but he didn't.