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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To state that suicide is NOT a selfish act ?

466 replies

Coffeenowplease · 10/08/2013 21:14

Really riled by this. People who commit suicide are ill and by the nature of their illness cannot think rationally so therefore cannot be "selfish" and think of the damage it causes to others.

I am so angry by this I had to make a post just to get it out.

Feel free to discuss.

OP posts:
Oblomov · 13/08/2013 09:58

Everlong, yes I do think people should be able to post on any thread. About anything. Things they have no experience of.
I have no experience, but can offer sympathy.
It enlightens people, educates them, reduces stigma.

I appreciate that this is very emotive for those to whom it has happened. But everyone should be able to post on any thread. We should not limit it, to only those who have had direct experience.
We can't have topics, that limit it to limited section, surely?

everlong · 13/08/2013 10:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mignonette · 13/08/2013 10:14

FiveLeaves I have always encouraged STNurses to meet with service users to hear the painful reality about using those services. I will use this thread to educate my students. (I mentor them on placement in community and in forensic settings.) I know of plenty of trained staff who need to read this too. Your Mother is performing a valuable service. Bless her for I understand how taxing it is to bear your soul like that. We need to embed service users and famillies fully within pre reg and post reg training. No more professional 'ownership' of expertise.

Nothing can substitute for real voices. Nothing. No amount of theory can ever explain suicide and stigma the way this thread does. It needs to be kept in Classics because as upsetting as it is, It is valuable.

My long held belief? That if somebody has the strength to endure this experience either as a survivor or family member, who are we to say we cannot bear to listen to it?

LookingThroughTheFog · 13/08/2013 11:54

Mignonette, that's made me have a bit of a weep.

I'm clearly having a bad head day. First I read 'Nothing can substitute for real voices' and took it to mean 'as opposed to the voices you hear in your head...' It took me a couple of times to work out the actual sense of it.

Secondly, I'm feeling a hell of a lot of survivor guilt today.

I suspect I'll be fine after a nap, and I'm getting more good days than bad, but still. Gah.

Latara · 13/08/2013 12:25

I posted on this thread a couple of days ago about how feeling suicidal can be due to not feeling rational; because I wasn't feeling rational myself and tbh was feeling suicidal then.

Now today I don't feel suicidal or especially depressed and that it what is so scary - suicide is so final and feelings / emotions are so changeable in some of us.

I think my ADs work quite well to stop me from feeling suicidal ALL the time but I still feel depressed enough at times which feels like my real self at that time; and it would be a shame (I can see that now today) to kill myself cos of that.

But suicide can't be a selfish act if a person is not in their 'right mind' at the time because they aren't themselves.

I don't know if that makes sense?

Anyway hope u feel better after your nap, Looking

TheMagicKeyCanFuckOff · 13/08/2013 12:48

I agree that it's great that people with no experience of mental health or suicide are posting and reading and educating themselves, but Imalso agree that people who aren't affected by either loss to suicide or suicidal thoughts or feelings should maybe think a bit about the feelings of the people they're both talking to and about.

TheApprentice · 13/08/2013 16:21

Mumoftwoteenboys I am so very sorry for your loss.

By some miracle my brother survived his suicide attempt. But the price he pays for living is high. In order for him not to be experiencing the terrible fear and pain that "normal" life seems to hold for him he has cut himself off almost completely and lives really like a hermit - my parents visit but he does not wish anyone else to. He leaves his flat rarely - I saw him at a family event (which had to be engineered to be close to where he lives) recently for the first time in nearly 3 years. Just attending this event was incredibly stressful and difficult for him, but he wanted to be there for the sake of my Mum.

Although we feel blessed and lucky to still have him, his story is tragic too in its own way.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 16:24

the ultimate selfish act, sorry

mignonette · 13/08/2013 16:26

Bless you Looking. Sorry If my writing was a bit convoluted. No I meant the voices of people with MI, affected by it via family & friends are far more effective than a lecturer spouting theory all day. There needs to be greater participation between the service users and those training to work with them.

BTW I am a big 'fan' of Romme & Escher's original work into 'hearing voices' and rather then just trying to eradicate w/ medications which is the typical first line treatment, actually working with clients to understand the significance/context/content of voices in order to minimise their negative effects and use them as an 'early warning system'.

mumof2teenboys · 13/08/2013 17:01

UnitedZingDom

Have you read the thread? Define selfish please. I would love to know how any of what people have said on here allows you to draw that conclusion.

Have you any experience of being suicidal/suicide?

Please expand your thoughts and tell us why you think it is selfish?

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 17:11

mumof2

yes, I did read most of it and I'm sorry about your loss, and everyone else's.

I'm not in a position to share personal experiences, therefore I can not explain why I think what I think.

but it's an AIBU thread so I don't have to explain.
I think OP is BU.

everlong · 13/08/2013 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FiveLeavesLeft · 13/08/2013 17:20

Thank you mignonette. I feel very passionately that educating health practitioners (and particularly not just those specialising in mental health) is an important step in addressing the stigma and fear associated with mental health/illness in general and suicide in particular. Yes my mum was very brave to bear her soul so publicly and with such unselfish motives and yet I see from some of the posts on this thread she is still considered selfish because she chose (and also because of how she chose) to end her life.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 17:29

everlong

not being inflammatory

many people said the same thing or similar earlier and I posted after I read the first few pages, in agreement.
not sure why I should elaborate.

again, it's an AIBU thread

everlong · 13/08/2013 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bongobaby · 13/08/2013 17:36

I'm writing this with a solid lump in my throat as I have blanked it out for years.
I had no place left to go anymore but to want to die, took a lot of various tablets found around the house and a bottle of neat vodka. I wanted out of this earth. I was 14 years old.
Not being selfish, but scared daily, beaten daily, humiliated daily, told that I should of been aborted, that I was a piece of shit, no good to anyone, hated, low self esteem.
All this coming from the one person that I thought was suppose to love me, my mother.
No one can understand the mind-set you have at wanting to die, unless you have experienced it yourself. I just thought who would actually give a fuck if I died.

everlong · 13/08/2013 17:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sausageandorangepickle · 13/08/2013 17:44

Zing

The thread has moved on a lot and some very brave people have shared their feelings and experiences, and we are all trying to see other peoples point of view. I know it was started in AIBU, and my original post was in agreement with you - but I did back it up with WHY I thought it was selfish. Having continued to come back to the thread, and been thinking about it a lot in between, I can see it is not as clear cut as that at all, so my position has moved somewhat.

Please continue to read the rest of the thread, and come back and explain how you feel then.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 13/08/2013 17:47

I'm so sorry bongo Sad
And sorry that you're being upset here too everlong

You'd think if you say "hey, that upset me" people would have the grace to say "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause any distress"

Like you say it's not really suitable for AIBU is it ?
But you'd think people could realise that for themselves and post a slightly more thoughtful answer ?

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 17:47

everlong

and you think that my elaborating would make it better at this point? I don't think so.

HorryIsUpduffed · 13/08/2013 17:47

How anyone can imply that bongo was acting selfishly baffles me. That poor child.

As a general rule I find it prudent to read the majority of a 400+ post thread before responding.

HorryIsUpduffed · 13/08/2013 17:49

Zing if you're going to come out with the same unreasoned and black-and-white brain fart that we saw so much of in the first pages, you're probably right to refrain.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 17:50

and of course I'm sorry I upset you everlong or anyone else, but the thread has moved on so there's really no point of me explaining anything.

sorry for all your losses.

UnitedZingDom · 13/08/2013 17:53

horry

I didn't know there was a rule that you can only post if you read through every message.

bongobaby · 13/08/2013 18:06

Its not always as straight forward as being selfish, just wanting out at that time in life. its a very low point and place to feel and be at.
Life has moved on for me but at the time I was gutted I was found, taken to hospital., as I was finally going to a better place away from it all.
It was 20 odd years ago and I would not attempt it again simply because now I am at a better place, and rid of the toxic mother who I no longer have contact with.