Family row - I know I am slightly unreasonable, but by how much?

[PMDD]

We have had a big family row and I genuinely don't know how unreasonable I am. I know I am slightly at fault. My view is that with all rows there is not really a black and white, just shades of grey. I just want to know how far in the dark grey I fall!

My brother's girlfriend is 6 months pregnant and from another country to England (I am English), but they live in England. I have 3 children. We recently spent a week away together and brother's girlfriend was regularly pointing out all the things she wouldn't do when her baby was born (her first child).

For example, on my youngest child's birthday I made a 'party tea' of Jaffa cakes, party rings, crisps, ham sandwiches, cheese sandwiches, birthday cake etc. She had none and as I was scraping the heart shaped Barbie plates into the bin she commented that she will never fill her child with fatty or sugary foods. I said nothing after the pointed comment.

Another time, my 2 oldest children were playing on the Wii as my DH and I packed the car up for the beach. However, once packed we had to shoe horn them off the Wii to get into the car. Again, my brother's girlfriend said that it was lazy English mothers that plonked their children in front of the gamestations rather than doing things with them. I said nothing.

Every day my children (age 9, 7 and 5) went to bed on holiday at 8.30ish. They normally go to bed at 7.30ish on a school day. However, no matter what time I put them to bed they are always up at 6.30 at the latest. My brother's girlfriend every morning said that it was strange how the English put their children to bed early. Again, I said nothing.

However, the regular comments were beginning to grate as I took them personally. I was hormonal - serious PMT and obviously at 6 months pregnant, so was she.

Towards the end of the week we went out and she was becoming animated at how the English had strange ways of 'your turn' and 'my turn' in changing nappies and getting up in the night etc. She said that it was wrong and it was for the mother to do 100%. I said that when you have 3 children it was very different and you get very tired and you need to share the load etc.

To which my brother's girlfriend said that if you couldn't cope with 3 children you shouldn't have had them. She followed with the fact her mother had 4 children and never had help from their father who worked hard etc.

I was really upset and cried. I then forcefully told her off and said she was very rude and offensive. She immediately apologised and said she didn't want to upset me. I responded with the fact she had upset me and was very rude.

I didn't really accept her apologies that evening, but the next morning I apologised for not having accepted her apology earlier.

This was a week ago and we are now all back in our respective homes.

My brother phoned me today to ask if I would call his girlfriend as she was still smarting that I called her rude. As I didn't want to start the argument all over again I said to him that I would call her and said that we both said things and I would like to draw a line in the sand.

However, he thinks this won't be enough and I need to apologise for saying everything I said. I really don't want to do this, as she really was very rude.

She will be bringing her child up in England but wants to raise him the way her country would raise a child. She really has big issues with the way the English raise their children. Which is where all this started.

Just tell me what you think. How far in the wrong am I?

she was rude. you do not need to apologise, you also can not be expected to brush off her comments as of no consequence just because she has apologised. people need time to calm down first, in line with the offence. and hormones

I do think, though, that she is going to need support from somewhere as your brother does not sound like he will be giving her any. i feel sorry for his ex. fancy demanding he parent his children.

YANBU at all apart from fixed bedtimes lol. What a rude woman - hormones or no hormones...she should be apologising to you for spoiling the holiday with her constant unjustified criticism and commentary.

Is there a language fluency issue causing what she says to come across so negatively?

Meant to also say there is no 'one English/British way' of bringing up kids - if there were, there wouldn't be so many parenting advice threads - we would all know what is expected and never question things.
Many replies are based on idea of Spanish way v UK way. It's more a difference in various parenting styles.

I wonder if it has occurred to your brother he may want to be involved with his child, it will be really sad to miss out.

She sounds as if she has had little life experience, and seems to resent been exposed to a different way of doing things.

I would let her work it out for herself, she will be learning fast soon enough. The rose tinted glasses will be lost under the pile of nappies and she will be moaning your brother doesn't help enough.

Just tell your brother to get a grip, and have a think about what he wants out of being a parent, they need to talk.

Garlicafain Wow, Chipping Should we just tell all the women posting in Relationships they made their beds, must lie in them, etc?

Don't be so ridiculous. That is not what I said. There is nothing stopping the spanish SIL from taking action if she is unhappy with the current set up & in fact there is nothing to indicate she is at all unhappy. Traditional spanish parenting meets lazy bloke wanting stepford style wife - probably a match made in heaven. But even if she was unhappy with her lot in life, that does not give her permission to go on and on and on and on at the OP about her apparent lack.

It's your brother's job to dote upon the mother to be, not yours. He's probably calling because he's sick of hearing about it but I certainly wouldn't be calling her if it were me.

She's rude. End of. She may not see it as rude but she's definitely moved to a country where it's one of the rudest things you can comment on. I'd sooner poke fun at someone's weight than I would their parenting.

Tell your brother he's being unreasonable. Let her eat her words after she's had the baby.

PS...I honestly don't think we can blame it on the fact it's her first. I'm pregnant with my first and certainly know better!

I would like to ask...the people saying we should show her sympathy and go easy on her...

If you were pregnant and in China, would you criticize the way Chinese people raise their children to a bunch of Chinese parents? Having a hard time is no excuse in my book.

I think you are nbu at all, I have friends who I have met through ds who are Spanish and also from other parts of Europe, they do things a bit differently but their children are happy and they don't comment on my parenting nor do I on theirs.
I think in your situation I would call to say water under the bridge and lets move on but don't think much more needs to be said other than you will try to support her parenting decisions and you would like her to respect yours.

But my mate lives in Spain now with Spanish DH (who is lovely; they will be TTC soon and when they were here in summer he was often relieving me of my 1yo 'to get some practice in' despite having children from previous marriages!) - and the point is that I get the impression their family unit & support network is much stronger than in the UK. Maybe men in Spain do do less, but there are aunts and GPs usually very actively involved in the upbringing.

I feel quite a lazy English mother most of the time so I'd probably just have apologetically agreed with all her comments. However I have many friends that do a much better job of stimulating their children, and those children still get chocolate and watch TV.

Like one poster says, the day structure in the UK is totally different; we don't have siestas. If your brother is this archaic in his views I look forward to how he'll be having his child up and wanting playing with (presumably, since their childhood will be very stimulating and not at all junk filled) when he comes back from work each night.

We recently went away for a few days with some Italian friends of ours who have 2 sons. They don't go to bed until til 10/11pm. No 'wind-down' time and they just get horribly over excited, hitting/kicking each other. Utterly exhausting. My DS, who is 17 mths, went to bed normal time. Aside from the adults having no adult time, getting these children up in the morning was a nightmare. 10am if you were lucky. I asked how they managed to get to school and was told they often went with no breakfast as it took so long o get them up. They're complaining the kids are no doing well in school .... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that no sleep + no breakfast = hard to concentrate at school!

We also have Spanish friends and they do tend to be very very blunt, no 'tact' filter at all.

I had an aquaintance thru a mums and toddler group when my eldest ones were small.she was spanish and exactly the same! All about how wonderful spain was, how bringing up children "in the english way" was wrong. I lasted maybe 3 months before telling her that maybe this wasn't the way to make friends and a diplomatic silence or even friendly debate was the way to go. She never spoke to me again!

Your brother's girlfriend is going to have to eat her words. And soon at that.
This is not a latin country.
I get where she comes from, that is the norm there, but it's different here and it is her child who is going to change her views, not you.
I don't think she was on a war path, trying to insult you, she was just saying what her culture does,in a very abrupt manner.
Just wait till she tries to eat out at 9 pm with a child in tow.
Anyway, I come from a latin country, there is no way in hell I would have done all the nappies and feeds and swimming lessons etc. the child has two parents.
Yes, I am a bit more relaxed and I let my child be bored, she has to get on with things in social gatherings, I don't do helicopter parenting and actively encourage family's input in her education. Takes a village and all that.
Hard work...

Laughed when I heard she is Spanish. SIL-to-be is exactly the same - lots of unasked for advice, very blunt (luckily though, not about my parenting).

It seems you were both rude (understandably, in your case; too long biting tongue so all exploded when it finally got too much). But have both apologised. It's your brother's problem really if your apology isn't enough for her.

But as others have said she's going to have a tough time ahead and could do with more support here and his family are all she has at the moment. So it would be kind to soothe the troubled waters even if you don't really feel like it.

Agree the drawing a line under it and "understand you're upset, so was I" is a good way to go.

You sound unbelievably tolerant and reasonable. It's incredible that after stating that "if you can't cope with 3 kids you shouldn't have them" and other gems she is expecting an apology. Ridiculous, spoilt woman. I would maybe talk to her one more time and reiterate how much she crticised your parenting constantly (and that you wouldn't do that to her) which WAS rude but that you are happy to accept her apology, you're glad she wanted to make up etc. No pandering to her ridiculous spoilt ways though.

Do not apologise, if the English are so shit then she can toddle off back to Spain, I suspect seeing as their economy is in the toilet that she won't though.

I had a baby in a foreign country, you just get on with it don't you, no need to critique the natives, is your SIL a bit thick?

just wait till baby comes and she asks for help. then you can say 'considering she coped all fine on her own with 4 kids, your mum must be so disappointed in you'

I knew she was Spanish from your OP! Lived there for several years, love the country and the people...and know this kind of behaviour so well. As a PP said, there's the Spanish way, and every other way is wrong. I'd bet my right arm, though, that she didn't realise how blunt she was being; peninsular Spanish is extremely blunt, and it takes a gifted linguist not to translate that directly into another language (I was forever criticised for being excessively polite in Spain, which was interpreted as aloofness, distance, rudeness, because I'd say things like, 'Could you pass the water, please?', instead of 'give me the water!')

That said, she was still rude to criticise your parenting and YANBU at all. I live in another country (not Spain), DH's home country, and I'm pg with DC1 (3 DSCs though so I do have some parenting experience). I see a lot of parents around me doing things I hope I won't do, but firstly, I keep my mouth shut apart from the odd rant to DH in private, and secondly, I'm not naive enough to think that these parents do these things because they're from here - as others have said, it's just different people, choosing to do things differently.

I have some sympathy for your SIL's situation - I'm happy here, but even so I do sometimes feel isolated, and it must be much worse for her...but she's not helping herself.

Don't apologise!

Knew she would be Spanish, Italian or Portuguese!
Especially with the bed times.

I am from one of those countries (not Spain) and While I wouldn't put my daughter to bed at 6 or 7, she goes to her bedroom at 8.
I am raising her in London and with a British father and wouldn't dream of criticising it so openly...

And I give her 6 months to change her views once the baby is out...

PMDD, you could say that you are sorry that you had the disagreement, (of course you are it spoiled your holiday) but this doesn't have to mean you apologise for anything else. She can take that however she wishes.

I am also thinking that she might be suffering ante-natal depression, she has no support from friends, she has been moved away from somewhere she loved living and was happy to a place she hates, she probably didn't want to go on this holiday but DP insisted, then she sees you parenting your DC in a way that seems so wrong to her yet she could well be wondering about her own ability to cope (hence the insistence on doing everything herself)

Then on top she has to 'prove' herself as the perfect spouse and mother, and stepmother to DP's DC and EXW. It's not unusual for those who feel so insecure and envious to criticise those they perceive as having what they want and are happy. This is possibly why things got out of hand.

I think you might be right about her moving back to Spain and her family if she can't be happy here. Could you try to be friendly now that the dust has settled, and find out how she's feeling, sound her out about whether she wishes anything was different? If she spurns you after that, it is her problem. YANBU in your opinions, and she is entitled to hers, but not to the extent of making you so miserable. And yes, she is in for a big shock when the baby is here.

You have nothing to apologise for, she needs to learn some diplomacy. She sounds like a rat!

She's the one who ought to apologise, not you. I think you actually showed amazing restraint! She sounds rude, judgemental and a pain in the neck. Your brother ought to watch out!

I'm agreeing with the others who say that Spaniards are quite often blunt and outspoken in a way that comes over as extremely rude in the UK. In turn, British people can come across to them as weird, pussy-footing passive aggressive people who just don't care enough about their friends to tell them that they look fat and old in their new dress.

My guess is that she might be a perfectly nice person (my relatives are!) but following hugely different social norms.

In future, I'd remind your SiL, every time, that in Britain, it's rude to criticise other people, and other people's parenting decisions. She will then huff a bit, but I think it's quite a good way to deal with it.

I used to work with a Spanish girl who said " you need to get your roots done" I was furious but she didn't see anything wrong with how cheeky she had been, I assumed it was just the Spanish way to be very factual and blunt and not like the bumbling British who skirt around everything.

Don't send any messages to her through your brother. He might use them against her, and she's already feeling isolated. How do we know she wouldn't have gone along with the "line in the sand" solution?

She sounds very rude but avoiding the Spanish/English culture differences, I would say she also sounds very naiive and rather similar to lots of pregnant British mums (who probably dont voice their dissaproval quite so blatently in true Bristish stiff upper lip style).

My sister had my neice when my youngest DC was 6yo. When pregnant she would tut and mention things like "Oh I dont think we will sit our child infront of the TV, feed it fishfingers,let it wear Disney dress up clothes on a daily basis

6 almost 7 years later I dont say a word but inwardly grin as I see neice sat infront of kids TV from time to time, playing on a DS,eating fishfingers and chocolate biscuits, wearing hideous pink clothes because her fave colour is pink and its just easier to go with the flow and let her wear the vile pink shitty clothes bought by some other pink obsessed relative ..........

You dont owe this woman an apology at all. However, wait for baby and reality and UK lifestyle to hit home and see how she changes her tune on some things. You wont need to gloat to her - do that inwardly like I do. She wont follow all her pre baby/child ideas 100% because none of us do. We all set out with a perfect image of how we will bring uo our DC - roll the clock forward 5 years and few of us can even recall that naiive perfect image we once had.