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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be irritated by what this sonographer said?

456 replies

maja00 · 10/08/2013 13:09

I recently had my 12 week dating scan. I declined the nuchal translucency scan, so was just going for the standard dating/measuring.

As soon as we got into the room the sonographer confirmed that I had declined the NT scan. The scan went as expected, baby looks fine etc.

At the end of the scan the sonographer said "I know you declined the NT scan, but I had a quick look at the baby's neck and it all looks normal. I would tell you if there was an obvious abnormality there".

Now, is it just me or is this not really in the spirit of us declining that test? If the sonographer had said it looked abnormal, then we would have been in exactly the position we wanted to avoid Confused

I understand that the sonographer was trying to be helpful, but AIBU to be a little annoyed by this?

OP posts:
lola88 · 10/08/2013 14:33

I think maybe since all was fine she was just trying to reasure you, i wouldn't want to know but if they looked and said it's all normal then i would be happy to have one worry taken off my list

OhMowGod · 10/08/2013 14:37

I dont think you are BU at all OP.

If she was taking the test anyway, and fully intended on telling you whether the resulst were good or bad then what exactly IS the point of having the choice of declining the NT test?

She has gone against the whole point of having the NT test option. Otherwise, why is there an option

OP I declined the test in my pregnancies. First of all, if my child had Down Syndrome it would have no effect on whether I wanted to continue the pregnancy and I never would have considered not having them. I understand that people use it as preperation incase something is wrong but also the tests are always accurate. So there could be unecessary worry for the rest of the pregnancy.

What if she had told you the news was bad? Yet the baby came out healthy? IMO she would deserve strong complaints against her.
I certainly would be complaining if that had happened.

Secretswitch · 10/08/2013 14:38

ThatsSoVanquish, you eloquently stated what I was thinking. I was 42 when I was pregnant with my last child. I thought about all the positives and negatives of every test I was offered. I chose only to have a dating scan at 12 weeks. I stated my position very firmly and clearly. I was questioned at each visit about doing other tests. It began to feel sonewhat harassing to me.

Fakebook · 10/08/2013 14:42

Yanbu OP! You had declined the test for a reason. Saying "everything is fine" should've been enough, and she didnt need to go into further detail about the neck measurement.

Also, wtf @ her saying she would have told you if something was wrong...that means if she'd seen a problem with the Nuchal fold she was going to tell you? I'd complain personally.

OhMowGod · 10/08/2013 14:42

*arent always accurate

Rachtoteach · 10/08/2013 14:47

Yanbu. Not worth complaining about IMO as I'm sure her heart was in the right place, but yadnbu to feel annoyed. Your baby, your choice.

VivaLeBeaver · 10/08/2013 14:47

But surely if they see something wrong then they are obliged to tell you? I'm fairly sure they are. If you don't want to be in that position maybe you shouldn't have any scans?

Or you should have been very clear saying that we're only here for dating, not anything else.

What if she'd seen something else like a missing limb or an anencephaly.....was she not meant to tell you? Maybe you should draw up a long list before the 20 week scan of what is ok to tell you and what isn't?

If she had seen an abnormality and not told you shed have been in trouble. They keep scan images in notes so if a baby is born with problems then they go over the images to see if it should have been spotted.

bemybebe · 10/08/2013 14:48

YANBU, how very unprofessional! There is no need to be "helpful", it is not up to her to decide on something you have already made very clear.

I would complain only from the pov to guide her as to how to treat her patients wishes with respect.

bemybebe · 10/08/2013 14:49

...and I am sure her heart was in the right place, but you are not coming for the "heart", you are there to receive professional consultation on the matters that are important to you.

OhMowGod · 10/08/2013 14:57

Viva it was clear, they asked specifically for the NT test not to be done. Its clear in the OP they discussed it before the scan.
Its got nothing to do with the sonographer being obliged to tell them if something was wrong, she shouldnt have taken the NT measurement in the first place since the couple specifically asked for it not to be done so in theory the sonographer shouldnt know the measurement one way or the other.

The dating scan does involve measuring limbs and so on, you dont opt out of being told limbs are missing (or enlarged kidneys etc etc), this was specifically about the NT test. A test which tells you if you are more likely to have a baby with Down Syndrome.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 10/08/2013 15:06

We declined the NT scan with ds2 , sonographer went ahead anyway and lied and said he was just dating but had "happened" to see thickening. We had months of worries and scans. DS was absolutely fine but it was hideously stressful.

LunaticFringe · 10/08/2013 15:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

underdoggy · 10/08/2013 15:13

We had the same thing. When the sonographer expressed surprise that we didn't want all the information, i.e. to get our X/in Xhundred score, DP said just let us know if there's any information that is necessary for the health of the baby or underdoggy. She was a bit lemon-faced about it and at the end told me my nuchal result was good and there was no indication of any problem.

I absolutely agree with you OP. Finding out your nuchal 'score' is one of those steps that makes all subsequent steps inevitable.

Pawprint · 10/08/2013 15:15

I don't know... she was probably just being thorough.

I think it must be a hard job - giving people bad news on a fairly regular basis. Having said that, you did decline the test so that should have been an indication to her that you didn't want any news about the nuchal fold, good or bad.

underdoggy · 10/08/2013 15:16

Viva, deciding that you would not terminate if the baby had one of the syndromes detectable by the nuchal scan is not reason to refuse to have scans. We did not even need a dating scan (IVF) but there are lots of checks the sonographer can perform to check for conditions that can be treated.

5madthings · 10/08/2013 15:23

Yanbu op, I think some people are misunderstanding the nt part of the scan. It does NOT tell you if there is something wrong, it gives you a risk indicator, the op didn't want to know or worry unnecessarily about this risk indicator as she would refuse further diagnostic testing.

The sonographer went against her wishes.

SecondRow · 10/08/2013 15:27

Preferthedog, the shape of the nuchal fold area has changed by 20 weeks when the anomaly scan takes place, it is only within a specific window at around 12 weeks that the measurement is relevant to calculating the risk of DS.

Preferthedogtothekids · 10/08/2013 15:38

Thanks SecondRow my kids were NT test. I did refuse the AFP testing at the time, and I got a lot of grief from the Consultant but I was determined and felt strongly about it.

In hindsight, I think I was foolhardy.

mamamidwife · 10/08/2013 15:43

Maja, yes she would be obligated to tell you if there was an abnormal Nuchal (as by itself this would not have formed part of the screening test & given you a defined risk of 1:???) also it would be an enlarged Nuchal that's abnormal and for her to identify it just in passing I would say it would have to be rather enlarged, just as if she had seen enlarged ventricles in the brain or something similar.
The nhs, royal college of obs, and I would hope most hospitals are clear in their literature that both dating and anomaly scans are designed to pick up abnormalities,
therefore if someone really does not want to know about potential and actual abnormalities then they should decline all scans. That is because once you start a screening procedure such as a scan the HP has a duty of care to act on deviations from the norm.
And there is nothing wrong with declining scans, it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
I declined the Nuchal test and just had a dating scan as I didn't want a risk factor and any further invasive testing but I was prepared to have scans and accept the fact I may get a result that could indicate that my baby did have a problem but not know until birth.
It's such an individual thing though, the sonographer will not have wanted to offend and will have assumed she's fulfilling her duty of care.
If though you think you weren't counselled properly prior to the scan, go back to your antenatal dept. and speak to someone.
There's a lot of muddy waters out there to wade through out there and it's evidently a hot topic!
Good luck with your pregnancy Smile

Preferthedogtothekids · 10/08/2013 15:44

Imeant pre-NT test

izzywillynilly · 10/08/2013 15:51

Scans are mainly there to look for abnormalities. If she had seen any abnormality in the baby, or major signs of serious abnormality she has to tell you. That's her job. And a largely increased nuchal fold is not just a sign of downs, but can be sign of certain major incompatible with life abnormalities. That is why she does her job, and checks the baby. This was being done way before trusts offered the nt scan. The NT scan is a screening test, that combined with a blood test, and your information gives u ur risk of downs. She didn't do that. So yes YABU.

ForgetfulNameChanger · 10/08/2013 15:54

Genuine question because I've confused myself: what's the difference between looking at the fold while doing the scan and the NT test itself? Just the actual measuring? Is that the part we are declining?

VivaLeBeaver · 10/08/2013 15:58

But the sonographers didn't do the NT test did she? She didn't take a measurement and combine that measurement with a blood test to give you a figure for the likelihood of baby having downs.

It sounds like she did the routine, old fashioned, pre NT test, 12 week scan. Date the pregnancy, do some measurements and have a general look that everything looks ok.

LaVolcan · 10/08/2013 16:00

Scans are mainly there to look for abnormalities.

So this begs the question, what exactly did OP think the scan was for and what information were they given about its purpose? If they were just told that it was to establish the dates and not primarily about anomalies then they would IMO be right to be a bit annoyed.

fluffyraggies · 10/08/2013 16:01

I understand it as the 'NT test' involves adding together the results of tests on a blood sample from the mother to observations/measurements made during the 12 week scan, and coming up with a risk factor for DS.

In a nut shell.

The NHS does a fairly basic NT scan, measuring the size of the gap behind baby's neck - the nuchal fold - and combines it with the look at the mothers blood. Hence combined test.