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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be irritated by what this sonographer said?

456 replies

maja00 · 10/08/2013 13:09

I recently had my 12 week dating scan. I declined the nuchal translucency scan, so was just going for the standard dating/measuring.

As soon as we got into the room the sonographer confirmed that I had declined the NT scan. The scan went as expected, baby looks fine etc.

At the end of the scan the sonographer said "I know you declined the NT scan, but I had a quick look at the baby's neck and it all looks normal. I would tell you if there was an obvious abnormality there".

Now, is it just me or is this not really in the spirit of us declining that test? If the sonographer had said it looked abnormal, then we would have been in exactly the position we wanted to avoid Confused

I understand that the sonographer was trying to be helpful, but AIBU to be a little annoyed by this?

OP posts:
underdoggy · 10/08/2013 18:29

FantasticFixit is a slighter thicker nuchal fold an abnormality? I would definitely have expected them to tell me about any abnormality they found. Obviously. My decision was about the nuchal fold. Am I missing something? It's not precious to not want information you know you can do nothing about.

Original poster
maja00 · 10/08/2013 18:34

I understand the sonographer was just trying to be nice/reassuring, but as I had declined the NT I think she'd have been better saying nothing specific about the neck/nuchal fold.

Can anyone explain to me, if she had told me it looked thick, what I could have done with that information?

OP posts:
TheFantasticFixit · 10/08/2013 18:36

The point is that it COULD be. As all abnormalities that are picked up on the scan are not 100% accurate until further diagnostic tests have been taken

Roshbegosh · 10/08/2013 18:46

Have the full NT, do nothing, have harmony test perhaps. What would you do with any other information about an abnormality or possible abnormality? If it looked very wide would you want her to make sure it was a cystic hygroma rather than a skull defect or just not mention it because it is the back of the neck. You say you didn't want the NT, fine, she didn't do the measurement. She kindly told you it looked ok and would have told you if she suspected a cystic hygroma or another neck or skull abnormality. What do you want from her? Like I said earlier in this thread and hen said, go ahead and demoralise her, waste people's time doing the investigation and he disciplinary procedure and make the Sonographer feel in knots everytime she has to communicate all this difficult information in future.

Original poster
maja00 · 10/08/2013 18:49

Obviously I would like to know if there are abnormalities.

The sonographer specifically mentioned the neck in the context of the NT test.

I don't think it is too much to expect a sonographer not to mention the NT test when it has been declined.

OP posts:
Original poster
maja00 · 10/08/2013 18:50

I do not want to have the NT test, I do not want to know if there is a risk of chromosonal abnormalities - so if telling me the neck looked thick would have meant taking the NT test, that is no help to me.

OP posts:
underdoggy · 10/08/2013 18:50

So why do they ask you if you want a nuchal scan then? At my midwife appointment she explained that the nuchal was a test for DS and that it was for me to consider whether I wanted it. Fine, we decided not to. Should they also be able to oblige me to have an amnio, just because they need that info, because 'further diagnostic tests' must be taken?

Honestly, I didn't think it was that contentious to decline the nuchal. I understood that declining the nuchal was the option for people who would not want to know in advance that their baby was high-risk for DS.

HeffalumpTheFlump · 10/08/2013 18:54

Yanbu, I think if you have declined the test you shouldn't be told the results, especially as it was clearly discussed. I assume that she thought you just didn't want to know if it was bad news but didn't see a problem because it was good news. Poor judgement on her part I feel, if you have declined a test, you have declined to know regardless of whether the results come back good or bad IMO.

jamdonut · 10/08/2013 18:55

When I was pregnant with DS2 ,13 years ago, the nuchal fold thing was a "new" thing to look for.
I had already declined Down's testing at my booking visit at the hospital,and the midwife was absolutely aghast that I wouldn't consider it "at my age" (I was 36!) .

Then when I had my second scan, there was a nasty moment when the sonographer went to get someone else to come and look at the screen. It turned out that they were having trouble measuring the nuchal fold,because my baby's neck was bent backwards,so they couldn't get an accurate measurement,and so couldn't rule out Down's. I insisted that it made absolutely no difference to me or the pregnancy, but it left that element of doubt for the rest of it.

Happily,everything was fine, apart from the cord being around his neck (causing an anxious few moments) at birth.

AWarmFuzzyFuture · 10/08/2013 18:57

What Hen said.

Roshbegosh · 10/08/2013 18:58

It is fine to decline the nuchal but then some mothers want to know about anything on the scan other than Down's and some want to know nothing except the dating. I am trying to explain to OP that the Sonographer saying the nuchal looked ok is not the same thing as doing the NT measurement, it means she checked for other things besides Down's risk that involve the back of the neck / nuchal fluid. It is a misunderstanding and I am not clearing it up sadly.

Babybeesmama · 10/08/2013 19:02

The thing with nuchal translucency is that it's a test of 2 parts. So it's not a definitive test. She didn't measure it or go into detail she's just saying from what she can see its fine. If it hadnt looked normal I doubt she would of said that to you but maybe she would of mentioned it to your midwife.

I don't think any harm was intended by it. She was trying to be helpful & reassuring. Not like you said you don't want to know the sex and she blurted it out or anything! X

VivaLeBeaver · 10/08/2013 19:02

OP, out of interest at your anomaly scan are you going to tell them that if they see soft markers for downs such as sandal toe gap, echogenic bowel, cardiac abnormalities, etc that you don't want them to tell you?

Viviennemary · 10/08/2013 19:04

Not quite sure what this sonographer was supposed to have done wrong. Except been professional and kind and helpful.

TarkaTheOtter · 10/08/2013 19:05

Unless the sonographer did the detailed nuchal fold measurement, took your blood, asked you some questions about age etc and calculated a risk factor for chromosonal abnormalities, she did not do the nuchal screening test. So she didn't give you the results of the screening test against your will.
She did a procedural check for general abnormalities including eyeballing the amount of fluid at the back of the babies neck and told you everything looks ok.
Even in areas where the nt scan is not offered you will be told if the nuchal fold looks abnormally thick because it can have lots of consequences, not just ds.

Original poster
maja00 · 10/08/2013 19:05

Viva, I'm happy to know about anything I can do something about or that will change the outcome. I don't want to know about anything that will cause anxiety and that I can't/won't do anything about.

It sounds like the sonographer's mistake here was to say "I know you didn't want the NT test but...", which certainly gave the impression that despite declining it she was going to give some information related to it anyway.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 10/08/2013 19:06

Sorry. Yes I do see what you mean. Blush

lljkk · 10/08/2013 19:06

I agree the sonagrapher overstepped the mark; the kind thing would be to contact the sonagrapher directly about it. Not take the matter up with others.

I seriously doubt there is an informal procedure. There will only be a formal paper-record-forever procedure. We live in the paperwork age and everyone has to cover their back in triplicate.

Roshbegosh · 10/08/2013 19:09

viva soft markers are a thing of the past now and cardiac abnormalities are not soft markers but a real abnormality in their own right.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/08/2013 19:10

YABU but clearly you're not going to agree. You've already been told that she did not give you the NT. You've also already been told that a thickened nuchal fold/neck area might be indication of another abnormality. The sonographer was duty bound to tell you about any abnormalities.

Original poster
maja00 · 10/08/2013 19:12

During my first pregnancy the NT scan wasn't offered at all. When I had the dating scan no specific mention was made of the neck or nuchal translucency - I was just told everything looked fine, arms, legs and heartbeat pointed out. That is what I expected from the dating scan this time too.

OP posts:
TarkaTheOtter · 10/08/2013 19:12

This leaflet explains that they will look at nuchal fold measurement even if you decline ds screening.

SoupDragon · 10/08/2013 19:14

I do not want to have the NT test, I do not want to know if there is a risk of chromosonal abnormalities

Obviously I would like to know if there are abnormalities.

How are these two statements compatible?

TarkaTheOtter · 10/08/2013 19:14

Quote "You may have chosen not to have your baby screened for Down?s syndrome. However, because an increased NT is also linked with physical problems and other chromosome conditions in your baby, the person doing the scan will tell you if they see more than 3.5mm of fluid at the back of your baby?s neck."

MissBeehiving · 10/08/2013 19:16

As plenty of much better informed posters have said, the NT test is not just the nuchal fold measurement, and she didn't perform the NT test, so you haven't had it. Unless you said to the sonographer "I don't want to know anything apart from the date information" then YABU.

I feel very sorry for the sonographer who was probably only trying to be reassuring to you. No good deed ever goes unpunished Sad

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