to think well done, Kate, but...

[bloodynurseries]

It's great she had a drug free birth.

But I've seen a few posts today implying that those of us who didn't manage a drug free birth or a 'drugged birth' as one person said somewhere else, are lesser mothers? It just seems like it's yet another stick for mothers to beat each other with.

As usual though I just take the OP as a springboard for some very interesting and important debate emuloc - around pain in childbirth, different birth choices and outcomes, and related issues.

But I do agree who would especially worry about what sort of birth Kate had ?
Though I guess if you have your baby at the same time and read the media reports of it you might possibly compare experiences.
But only alongside others, such as your friends from ante-natal class for example - where you will probably get a wide variety of experience.

I reserve all my respect and admiration for women who have a drug-free c-section.

God does competitive mother syndrome happen even in the delivery suite? Personally I don't give a monkeys how where or who you give birth with. It's bloody hard work in any shape or form. That's why it's called labour! Just be thankful you made a human. Lots of people can't do that.

I had a drug free birth last time. Never again!

"I reserve all my respect and admiration for women who have a drug-free c-section."

Now that is hard core!

IC believe me I know all about "I want to die" When I was in labour with DC2 I was in so much pain but it was doing nothing at all. I was in so much pain but not contracting at all, and part of the problem was that the more pain I was in the more wound up and tense I got. I needed to relax but I physically couldnt. Thats why I needed an epidural. As soon as I had it I was ready to push within an hour or so, yet I had an 8 hour labour.

I am merely trying to point out that because of my mental attitude, the pain was harder to deal with and actually got worse. A woman who is able to mentally remove themselves (as I actually learnt to do in my final labour, bit late by then!) would have coped better than I did and probably wouldnt have need the epidural. Pain is not a competition!

And also IC you say that no one would have got through it on gas and air alone. You dont actually know that to be fact. All you know is that YOU couldnt. Same as I only know that I couldnt get through my labour without an epidural because of how I deal with pain, whereas someone else with a different attitude may not have needed one.

well I also have 4 hcp who are the ones that told me there was nothing I or they could have done differently...and that the problem is genetic, but whatever...I am sure you know better.

Having a 'drug free' birth, really, what does that say about anyone? That they have a high pain threshold? They managed their pain in a different way (breathing etc).

I had 2 sections. One crash under GA & one with a spinal. #1 I had no choice. #2 I did that way as I didn't want a repeat of #1.

They weren't inferior births, just different. I am not a lesser mother because of that, just different.

This is why I don't buy into societies ideas of motherhood, or women. I compare my self to no one, because like all babies, all mothers are different too.

I think all mothers should be proud of giving birth - one of the most significant things we'll ever do.

If, many years ago, when I had DD1, part of my pride (actually a small part I think) was that I had the birth I wanted and she was born in a water pool, maybe some people can forgive me for that. Mostly I was pleased and thankful it had gone as well as it did.

Now I'm older and wiser I see more and more that we all do what we have to to get through it as best as possible.

And everyone's experience is different.

Now- there are no doubt some people who won't understand or agree with what I'm about to say
BUT..
It does annoy me when people try to make an analogy with having a tooth out or some other procedure, and say 'well you wouldn't have that done without pain relief ', or the old chestnut 'there are no medals for going without drugs'... Yes, we all know that, the only prize is a healthy baby.
But having a baby for many women isnt like going to the dentist or having some other surgical procedure. I find it difficult to explain exactly why, but it just isn't. I was very keen to have a drug free birth, not because I'm some kind of masochist (it hurt like nothing on earth and I can't say I enjoyed the pain) but because to me there is something fundamentally different about giving birth than there is to being unwell, needing surgery etc
The closest thing I can describe it as is being like a marathon runner, or someone doing some sort of extreme sport where you push your body to its limits and it actually hurts a lot; you know you don't have to go through it (running marathons is not compulsory, just as having a drug free birth isn't) but you aim to do it, and if you achieve it you feel rather in awe of yourself.

I'm not saying women who have different births can't feel that either. I'm not making a judgment about how any other woman gives birth. And please don't post back and tell me how you aimed for a drug free birth but the baby was breech and it was a c section- we all know sometimes a natural birth is medically impossible and no one needs to defend themself to me

I just feel the need to redress the balance a bit, because I think in reality, women don't judge eachother a births, I think the problem is that women can beat themselves up about their own birth if it wasnt what they'd have ideally wanted.

The OP being a case in point . Whether or not Kate had a drug free birth (and none of us are likely to ever know) it's very unfair that anyone who is even perceived to have had a natural birth is berated in case it makes other women feel bad about themselves.

We all know birth hurts like buggery (remembering crowning and tearing makes me wince years later) It isn't a competition though. And that's why comments like 'you wouldn't have a tooth out without anaesthetic' are actually demeaning other women's choices (even if its unintentional) just as much as it would be if I criticised other women's decision to have an epidural. You may not understand why some women choose a drug free birth- but the point is, you don't have to. Just as I don't need to understand why another woman might go for an elective cs or an epidural. You can respect someone else's situation without having to get your head round why.

I mean, if Kate had been widely reported to have had an elective Caesarian or a birth with epidural, I don't think anyone would dream of starting a thread saying
"Well done Kate BUT..."

Yet it sometimes seem women who've had natural births are seen as a fair target for other women's self imposed feelings about their own experience.

Some thoughts.

It very much aggravates me that certain groups and sources in the media create an impression that there is one perfect way to give birth. Every birth, every woman and every baby is different. How can one approach possibly fit all? As evidenced here by women who have had very different labours with different children.

Secondly I think this attempt to homogenise the birth experience into one perfect 'pure' experience reflects a massively misogynistic view as it perpetuates the age old sexist view that women should be quiet, calm, 'pure' creatures and that part of this should be bearing immense pain quietly and calmly.

Thirdly it frustrates me massively that women themselves (as on the natural parenting thread cited below) actually buy into this bullshit and perpetuate it thus oppressing themselves further.

I haven't read anything about K Midd birth but did find the reports on Jamie Bell's wife being praised for having a 'quiet calm natural birth' this week pretty nauseating.

On the flip side, my mum as a former midwife is a propenant of using as few drugs as possible, not because she is a misogynistic sadist, but because she saw plenty of examples in her practicing years of labours being slowed down and failing to progress due to pain relief. My personal view is that epidurals etc have moved on massively since then however and it would be rude not to take advantage of such developments in technology and pain relief

To be fair, the media will pick up on anything and run with it. I thought it was quite sweet what Jamie bell wrote about his wife, and frankly, if she'd been epidural'd up to her eyeballs he'd have still tweeted about how much he loved her!

I just think the balance needs redressing a bit.. It seems perfectly acceptable these days to say 'you wouldn't have a tooth out without anaesthetic' and actually what that saying implies is that women who have drug free births are either morons, masochists or somehow miraculously push a baby through their vagina pain free! And that's as bad as someone making sarcastic comments about women who have epidurals

Janey I see your point, I do think it is a personal decision and those responses are a bit out of order. My issue is more how it becomes interpreted by the media as the only right way. I wonder if daily mail would have run a similarly toned story had Jamie tweeted something relating to pain relief though!

Pixie lady- I agree with you that's its 'each to their own' but one other observation I'd make is that a lot of women have a very medicalised birth first time around, but with subsequent labours, go without epidurals or strong drugs. I think it's worth considering why that is. For every woman who is very happy to have a medicalised birth , and chooses it for all her children ( and that's fine - no judging here) - there are also women who are very keen to experience birth naturally. They have that innate feeling I tried to explain earlier, which may not seem logical to others, but is very real. I went to antenatal classes with a group of women and we all had our second babies around the same time too. Probably the majority of those whose had epidurals first time, went without the second time. A number even chose to book into the MLU where I had my children, for their second birth, as they preferred the idea rather than another hospital birth. I don't think that was anything to do with external pressure; I think it was their choice, that having given birth one way, they really wanted to experience it another way too. It's a valid choice which shouldn't be demeaned.

I had 2 births using gas and air. I can honestly say that when breathing the G&A I was pain free, I couldn't tell if my contraction was still there or not. I generally have a high pain threshold (I regularly don't notice I have cut myself till I see the blood, when I burn myself I don't bother running water on it-you get the picture) in some ways this is a disadvantage I have not sought medical attention when I ought to have. But in childbirth it's very useful.

I agree with ICENI the amount of pain experienced can be very genuinely different.

Janey, I think you make a valid point that is rarely heard. I have found it so hard to explain to my DH (and others) why I wanted to go drug free. He is a marathon runner and I have tried to compare it to that sort of challenge/endorphins afterwards, but to no avail.

People have said quite horrible things to me about intentionally going without pain relief, mostly about how I probably think I am better than them for doing it, or how I shouldn't expect a medal (and these weren't random strangers, they were friends who specifically asked about the birth).

When the midwife was struggling to break my waters, she kept pushing the gas and air mask into my hand despite my refusals - I don't think she'd have been so pushy with any other intervention, but it was like my refusal to give consent wasn't valid because what I was doing simply wasn't logical.

My drug free births felt amazing. I loved being able to feel everything that was happening, and I loved the feeling of excitement and power and exhilaration that came with feeling my children enter the world. I don't mean to imply that you can't get these feelings from other kinds of birth. For me, I loved being in control of the pain and I loved knowing exactly what my body was doing and why. Like Janey, I just felt like I needed and wanted to do it this way, and it makes me very sad to be told that I'm crazy, deluded or superior for this choice. It is very much socially acceptable to deride drug-free birthing, and I suspect that explains some of the cruel comments on this thread.