to think well done, Kate, but...

[bloodynurseries]

It's great she had a drug free birth.

But I've seen a few posts today implying that those of us who didn't manage a drug free birth or a 'drugged birth' as one person said somewhere else, are lesser mothers? It just seems like it's yet another stick for mothers to beat each other with.

I'm with Bogeyface on this. Childbirth bloody hurt - I mean really, really hurt, I honestly didn't know I could live through pain at that level, but even through all of that my fear of needles stopped me from having anything more than gas and air and so that kept me calm, if that makes any sense? I was absolutely determined that they weren't going to stick a needle in my spine. Otoh, going to the dentist for a small filling terrifies me so much and makes me so distressed that I need sedation - when I don't have it I'm hysterical and absolutely terrified, which makes the pain 100 times worse than I'm led to believe it is.

I had a pudendal block with ds2 as he had to be ventoused out with not enough time for an epidural. I nearly fainted when I actually googled it after the event. I knew it involved a big injection but !

Who gives a shit, really? IMO the only important thing is an alive mother and baby afterwards, anything else is a bonus.

I hate this kind of debate why should anyone feel inadequate because we either needed assisted in labour or used pain relief for it.

Striving for perfection in life never works for anyone.

In my experience I didn't even think about labour or even have an idea of a birth plan.
As it was I had no control over the birth of my dd and took the advice and drugs as they were given.

I was induced @ 37wks due to pre eclampsia and dd was back to back ending in forceps delivery.
I think by my not having a plan or attempt at control did help as I hadn't set myself up to fail in my mind.

I had a ventouse as well, no epidural. I don't remember any talk of a pudendal block - is this standard practice? I just remember it hurt like buggery when they put the ventouse on, and this was 16 years ago

I wouldn't worry about it. They're not going to say anything else are they. I think it's fairly self evident she had an ok time relatively speaking otherwise she wouldn't have been leaving the hospital the next day never mind having to do the public announcement.

I have to say I haven't had children yet and have zero desire to have a drug free birth. I don't like pain. Pain makes me stressed.

What might also have helped Kate was the sure and certain knowledge that if the pain did get too much for her they wouldn't be unable to provide an anaesthetist due to another emergency and that she would have a midwife with her at all times. Staff shortages and full delivery suites would hold no fear. Fear and uncertainty are known to make pain worse. She had the care that all women in labour should have and I am glad she did. I would like it to be the same for all women.

IfIonly hear hear. No labouring woman's pain, or her desire for pain relief, should be dismissed as unworthy of attention.

Agreed IfIonly. I would love to have had the sort of care that she is sure to have. The care i had was so poor that it made me a lot more stressed than i needed to be.

SirChenjin bogeyface

Oh what an absolute surprise...two people telling me that others would have got through on gas and air feeling the same pain I did.

Well you are simply wrong. I am terrified of needles too. Utterly. I got hit by a contraction with the needle half in half out in my spine (for a spinal tap that didn't do anything in the end) and there was nothing I could do to control my body from thrashing around with the pain. I was certain I would be paralyzed and it made no fucking difference.

The day after giving birth I got a visit from 3 different anaesthetists and the consultant to try and explain to me how very unusual the circumstances around my pain management had been. It turns out I have very low levels of response to naturally occurring endorphins and hence have a vastly reduced pain tolerance level and am almost immune to several of the commonly used painkillers that use the same signalling pathways.

So yeah, tell me again how someone braver, more composed, more prepared would have gotten through the same experience with a couple of paracetamol and a hot bath....

I'm sorry you had so much pain ICBINEG

It's obvious that different women have different experiences of the pain in childbirth, and indeed in general that people have different pain thresholds.

It's odd that there's so much resistance to this idea/fact I think.

Absolutely concur withIfIOnly - every woman in labour should have the presence of a dedicated midwife - known to them previously from pregnancy - throughout their labour. Post-natal care also needs to be much better resourced and personal with time for women to talk things through with an HCP as standard practice, regarding birth experience, breastfeeding, care of newborn, and their own feelings and concerns.

Err...I didnt say that!

I said that how you deal with pain makes a big difference, and it does. Someone who can do the old woo bollocks of welcoming each contraction as a step closer to the baby blah blah could manage the same pain with less pain relief than someone who gets tense and upset. Why is that so hard to grasp?!

Stop feeling victimised, its ridiculous

It can be both though bogey - different experiences of pain, and different ways of coping with it - and both related to each other to some extent too.

But, I think it is a big mistake to not recognise that any two women will be having a different basic experience to contend with.

I said anyone experiencing the pain I did would not voluntarily get through it on gas and air.

You said "that's not necessarily true".

so how exactly is that not you saying that someone else could have gotten through that pain on gas and air?

How is preparation going to help when the pain is so severe you cannot control your own body any more?

I did what I needed to at the time, for every birth. Isn't that how it should be? Every birth is different and needs different interventions. Guilt is pointless and unneccesary. Why give it headspace?

What we want and what we actually need is different.

When you are in little, or a modest amount of pain, your mental approach can make a difference.

When you are in 'stop torturing me and just let me die' pain it makes no fucking difference at all what your mental approach is.

"What we want and what we actually need is different" - wondering what thinking was behind that comment shew ?

I think we really need better maternity care in this country. It would make such a difference to women's and babies well-being.

I think there is some truth in the fact that a relaxed mum will experience less pain than a worried tense one HOWEVER, no one can force themselves to relax and there are also so many other variables that affect a birth experience.

juggling No I meant that we would all probably 'want" a drug free natural birth but many people "need" more than that.

If you want pain relief, you should have it. I just will never every be bale to get my head around this idea that women should go through childbirth with nothing more than a CD of calming yak music and some scented candles. If you want to do that, then feel free. If you want to have pethedine, gas and air or an epidural then you should have access to that. Having a natural birth isn't some badge of honour to lauded over the rest of us who actually wanted something for the pain thankyouverymuch. It fucking hurts. No matter how you do it, labour and childbirth fucking hurts. All the woo about 'productive pain' is not comforting if you don't buy into it. We don't go around congratulating people for getting through their cancer treatments without pain relief, or having a limb removed without pain relief, in fact we would probably look at them like they had grown another head.

Interesting hearing people talk about pudendal block, I think that's what I had with DS - it was a HUGE needle, and it did hurt (as the consultant had gently pointed out several times). I was a bit delirious at that point.

I did say afterwards that I would pay to have gas and air pumped to my house, that stuff is amazing.

Oh I see shew, there are a few different strands to this thread going on here aren't there ?

• none more important than ICBINEGs I think.

I bet she as out her tree on Gas and Air calling william a bastard and telling him he was never getting near her again like i did

women who berate other womens birthing choices are really not worth getting worked up about as they are so far up their own arses they won't listen anyway,

I really do not understand this thread. Who in their right mind cares how Kate had her baby or what drugs she had \did not have. It would not and does not make me feel gulity or somehow less of a woman because I did not have a drug free birth. I have important things to worry about than how other women deliver their babies.

Why on earth do we women worry about this sort of thing (can you imagine Prince William and his mates 'comparing' stories about how their wives gave birth ?).

It surely shows something about ourselves if we think we are 'good/clever/earth mother-ish/whatever' to give birth without any pain relief. Who is comparing statistics? Who really cares?

FWIW I had an EMCS and was absolutely thrilled .