to want Amazon to withdraw a book endosing beating children from sale?

[missfliss]

Dear Mumsnetters,

This is my first post here, so please be kind. And yes, I have joined specifically because of this issue ? but I?m sure I?ll stick around too and have signed up to be a product tester etc.

A friends Facebook post today made me aware of the following title for sale on Amazon UK which advocates and endorses the beating of children ? from as young as 4 months old ? as a ?discipline tool?.

The book is called ?How to train Up a Child? and I have quoted some bits from it below.

I realise amazon aren?t breaking the law by selling it, but cannot believe they have chosen to list it for sale ? and so I have started a petition to get it withdrawn.

Thanks for reading,

Missfliss

Here?s the book:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1892112000/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1BEG0RMJC314P2KS4VYD&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=358549207&pf_rd_i=468294&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

here?s my petition
www.change.org/petitions/amazon-uk-withdraw-a-title-which-endorses-beating-children-from-4-months-of-age


here?s the quotes:
Quotes from the book:

"At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree"

So hitting a 4 month old with a willow sprig is an acceptable form of punishment?

"After about ten acts of stubborn defiance, followed by ten switchings, he surrendered his will to one higher than himself. In rolling the wheel, he did what every accountable human being must do-he humbled himself before the "highest" and admitted that his interests are not paramount. After one begrudged roll, my wife turned to other chores"

She is talking about a 15 month old baby who would not play with what SHE wanted him to play with!

"On the bare legs or bottom, switch him eight or ten licks; then, while waiting for the pain to subside, speak calm words of rebuke. If the crying turns to a true, wounded, submissive whimper, you have conquered; he has submitted his will. If the crying is still defiant, protesting and other than a response to pain, spank him again"

Let's beat that child in to submission! That's exactly why we have children isn't it? Pah!

"One particularly painful experience of nursing mothers is the biting baby. My wife did not waste time finding a cure. When the baby bit, she pulled hair (an alternative has to be sought for baldheaded babies)"

Yes, pull a newborn's hair! That'll teach him!

[bemybebe]

bumping this for you OP - please complain to amazon people!

[acebaby]

Interesting to see/infer that the amazon page on this book has been hacked. I won't buy the book as I don't want to give the authors royalties, but the preview alone is enough for me to sign the petition and complain to amazon.

[CrapBag]

Can't see why anyone would object to this book not being sold on Amazon even if it can't be banned. Like someone said, it does actually encourage parents to break our law on hitting children.

Both petitions very gladly signed.

[HoikyPoiky]

I haven't read all the posts, sorry.

I am afraid Amazon won't care. The sell Anais Nin's 'Delta of Venus'. An erotic book containing short stories covering a range of disgusting subjects INCLUDING child pornography.

For example one of the stories is about voyeuristic priests and a young boy being gang-bang sodomised by his classmates.

This is a book written to be 'erotic' Readers are meant to get off on it!

Amazon are happy to sell it

I don't think they care what they sell.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Hoiky - you may be right that Amazon don't care what they sell. However, adult fiction isn't the same thing as a book which is instructing people on how to physically abuse their kids. We may not like what other people get off on, but that's their business. Safeguarding kids requires society at large to be responsible.

[Lilka]

I hate that book and what's in it. I hate that it's been linked

Amazon do not care. They also sell Marquis De Sade, at least one of his books is an entire book contains almost nothing but lengthy stories about child sexual abuse and raping children as young as 5 (culminating in sexual torture and murder of more children) clearly for the readers titillation and enjoyment. If they sell THAT they'll sell anything, including the Pearls

[Lilka]

oops, cut off

• I hate that it's been linked with the murders of real children. It makes me sick

[Lilka]

I've still signed the petition though!

[FeegleFion]

I'm sorry that I've not been able to come back to this thread in the past few days. My DS is teething and is very irritable and clingy, so I've been otherwise occupied.

I've not caught up with all posts, yet. I will go back and see how the discussion has progressed but I wanted to post this first.

Sheshelob you know you like me a lot more than just a little Has the blog that we discussed been posted yet?

Grimma I made a very conscience decision to liken one to the other, in this instance (physical abuse to sexual abuse).

I wholeheartedly agree that in a wide and varied range of alternative circumstances, we would be unable to, or at the very least, hard pushed to draw any similarities in the perpetrators motivation for the 'type(s)' of abuse inflicted on their victim but there are sex offenders who specifically enjoy sadistic violence and get sexual gratification from inflicting physical pain on their victims and it was this type of offender I was referring to.

The fact that this book suggests using implements (switch) is, IMHO, an invitation for sex offenders whose tastes are for S&M to find (potentially) new methods.

[BinarySolo]

I've signed and shared on fb.

Just for clarity, it is illegal to hit children in Scotland and in uk law you can use 'reasonable physical punishment' but must not leave a mark. As some one said up thread, it's highly unlikely you can hit with a stick and not leave a mark.

I do think this book could be potentially damaging by encouraging and condoning abuse. I'd be happy to see it entirely banned. Just because someone has written their vile ideology and published it as a book, shouldn't automatically be granted some sort of sacred status. Again as others have said, if the book advocated sexual abuse would it be worthy of censorship?

Apparently there are 4 deaths in the US that have been linked to this book.

[HerculePoirotsTache]

I've just signed and shared on FB too.

[LackingEnergy]

The Wright Stuff were saying that a lot of this book is based on the bible. So based on that there is no point in trying to ban it since the source will still be on sale IYSWIM

[HardlyMotherTheresa]

The book is horrible. What on earth are Amazon playing at selling it?

I am about to sign your petition, OP.

[BinarySolo]

I might be wrong here, but I don't think the bible graphically describe what size stick to use or to pull the hair of a breast feeding infant. They also recommend hitting children with strimmer wire as it 'fits in your purse or pocket' and when older to use plastic tubing.

I can see how the book was directly linked to the children's deaths as it basically tells parents to continue beating the child until the whimper in pain and submission rather than in anger and to use any means necessary including sitting on the child.

How is that not abuse?

[FeegleFion]

LackingEnergy I definitely SWYS, however, saying something is based I something else doesn't mean it's even remotely the same.

For example we've all heard about and some of you may have been unlucky enough to have seen spoof movies.

Now just because 'Hot Shots' is based on 'Top Gun' etc. that doesn't mean it's anything like it's inspiration nor that it makes a joke of the original.

That may be oversimplified but my exhausted brain is fuzzy (teething, not sleeping baby) and it was the least taxing of analogies that I could come up with without giving myself brain freeze