to want Amazon to withdraw a book endosing beating children from sale?

[missfliss]

Dear Mumsnetters,

This is my first post here, so please be kind. And yes, I have joined specifically because of this issue ? but I?m sure I?ll stick around too and have signed up to be a product tester etc.

A friends Facebook post today made me aware of the following title for sale on Amazon UK which advocates and endorses the beating of children ? from as young as 4 months old ? as a ?discipline tool?.

The book is called ?How to train Up a Child? and I have quoted some bits from it below.

I realise amazon aren?t breaking the law by selling it, but cannot believe they have chosen to list it for sale ? and so I have started a petition to get it withdrawn.

Thanks for reading,

Missfliss

Here?s the book:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1892112000/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1BEG0RMJC314P2KS4VYD&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=358549207&pf_rd_i=468294&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

here?s my petition
www.change.org/petitions/amazon-uk-withdraw-a-title-which-endorses-beating-children-from-4-months-of-age


here?s the quotes:
Quotes from the book:

"At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree"

So hitting a 4 month old with a willow sprig is an acceptable form of punishment?

"After about ten acts of stubborn defiance, followed by ten switchings, he surrendered his will to one higher than himself. In rolling the wheel, he did what every accountable human being must do-he humbled himself before the "highest" and admitted that his interests are not paramount. After one begrudged roll, my wife turned to other chores"

She is talking about a 15 month old baby who would not play with what SHE wanted him to play with!

"On the bare legs or bottom, switch him eight or ten licks; then, while waiting for the pain to subside, speak calm words of rebuke. If the crying turns to a true, wounded, submissive whimper, you have conquered; he has submitted his will. If the crying is still defiant, protesting and other than a response to pain, spank him again"

Let's beat that child in to submission! That's exactly why we have children isn't it? Pah!

"One particularly painful experience of nursing mothers is the biting baby. My wife did not waste time finding a cure. When the baby bit, she pulled hair (an alternative has to be sought for baldheaded babies)"

Yes, pull a newborn's hair! That'll teach him!

[missfliss]

aaah - i wish i had seen it - thanks so much. you are right, joining that one would have been so much more effective.

wonder if i could link to it from my petition

[Cakebaker35]

None taken cushtie

[missfliss]

appreciate the post cushtie and thankyou for reconsidering

[bunjies]

Have signed your petition.

[SirChenjin]

No - odd because they are just plain odd.

This book is advocating physical abuse of children. As the OP say, if a book advocating the beating of women was on sale, would that be OK? To be fair to Amazon, it's also on sale as an ebook via Blackwells. I'll be taking that up with them via my sales rep there.

[bunjies]

Oops cross posted. Will sign other one too just in case

[SirChenjin]

Thanks for the link to that Smite - have signed that too.

[Tweasels]

I'm absolutely mystified as to why it would take a petition for amazon to remove this.

I'm aware that Amazon don't appear to have the highest morals but surely this is a step too far.

[missfliss]

i know tweasels - its extraordinary isnt it.

[cushtie335]

missfliss Not at all. I have a bee in my bonnet about censorship that sometimes clouds my judgement. It beggars belief that people can still trot out this shite in this day and age. I hear it from nutters at my work every day "bring back the belt", "bring back the birch", "I got hit when I was a kid and it never did me any harm", er, yes it did, you're a bitter, twisted, judgemental old cunt and funnily enough I don't want my children turning out like YOU.

[cory]

suchashame Mon 29-Jul-13 14:06:38
"The lanuage does not look modern .... much more victorian or before... does not sound like currently used child rearing methods."

It's an American Christian book, designed to appeal to those of an Evangelical bent; from what I have seen of it, apart from being vile, it could very easily put you on the wrong side of the law in this country.

It differs from Shades of Grey in that Shades of Grey does not (if I have understood it correctly) claim that this is how you have to behave to please God and do right by your child.

It has been linked to the deaths of children in the US.

[cushtie335]

cory that sounds feasible, the Christian Fundamentalist edge I mean. I apologised about the Shades of Grey crack, I was being a smart arse.

[Tweasels]

I've sent them a message. Because, you know if a 15000 signature petition doesn't work, they're bound to listen to little old me

[VivaLeBeaver]

Ill sign the petition. And leave a shitty review on amazon.

[PeriodMath]

Could someone do a link to the petition please?

[McBalls]

Periodmass- link is in opening post.

Missfliss- I apologise for being rude. The book is ridiculous and I hope your petition leads to it being removed. My irritation was about Facebook and the way horrible subjects are discussed and shared on there. But you have actually done something constructive, my snarkiness was unwarranted.

[SirChenjin]

Smite has posted a link to a much bigger petition that's already going - www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/amazon-refuse-to-carry-books-which-advocate-the-physical-abuse-of-children

[UnexpectedStepmum]

Thanks for bringing this up MissFliss. I have signed the petitions - I hope you find a way to link yours to the larger one, there is probably a techy Mumsnetter who will know about this?

[phantomnamechanger]

Agree the book is vile and very sad.
This has been done on MN before though - the quote used then was about colour coding your switch to match your handbag and shoes.

hitting a little baby with a colour coordinated stick. grim.

[ANormalOne]

This book has been linked to the abuse, torture and murder of more than one child at the hands of their parents:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Lydia_Schatz

and

www.wral.com/news/local/story/3013647/

You talk about free press, would you allow a book that detailed the best way to kidnap, rape, kill and hide the body of young children?

The pearls aid and abet murder and abuse, their book should be removed.

[Trigglesx]

Well, regardless of whether or not that book was linked in those two cases linked the parents were obviously loons. Sorry, but what person in their right minds thinks it's okay to make their kid eat vomit or hold them down for hours beating a 7yo because they mispronounced a word?!? I don't think the blame is on the book, the parents were obviously abusers, regardless.

I admit, I struggle with this. Freedom of the press and all. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense would ignore the book or if they chanced to read it, they'd realise what shit it was and junk it. Anyone that follows it willingly and thinks this is okay behaviour towards their children most likely has an abusive history or propensity anyway IMO.

[KellyElly]

I have signed this and will share with my friends to get them to sign. It's a disgrace this book is being sold anywhere never mind on Amazon.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I've signed the larger petition here.

Press freedom isn't the issue - I'm sure people will still be able to get hold of these appalling books from what would describe themselves as 'Christian' book vendors in the US.

[missfliss]

thanks all, and thanks for reconsidering McBalls

[LilacPeony]

At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs.

Well this is bollocks because a 4 month old is incapable of attempting to climb stairs. Most can't sit up yet at that age.