To ask your views on bdsm relationships

[McNewPants2013]

I have been reading a lot of books about this and have came to a conclusion that with a trusting relationship it can work.

So what is your view.

[MadameDefarge]

OP, are you being willfully ignorant Did you not read my recent posts?

I would love to be into BDSM, or vanilla or whateva!

Unhappily for me I couldn't give flying fuck (ooh!) about sex atm.

happily for me I am emerging from depression and am feeling happy and buoyant for the first time in a few years! yay! so your rather nasty pa post goes over my head. bah! away with your "I've just read 50 Shades of Shite" enquiries. Being aware of others sexual preferences does not make them your own. And if I liked the whole BDSM thing I would have not hesitation in talking about it.

[McNewPants2013]

Madame I hope I am not being nasty, as you have said I have I do apologise for it

Got to agree with 50 shades of shite, I am not reading that, even though I have read it.

[McNewPants2013]

I have asked MN to delete this thread as I don't want to upset other posters.

[MadameDefarge]

well I would be surprised if they do. No one had a major spat, and am struggling to see how other posters would be offended.

But heigh ho!

I never said you were nasty, I said you were not engaging with the posters who were seriously engaging with you.

Still don't quite understand what it is you want from us.

[Montybojangles]

YABU for not really posting an AIBU!

Why didn't you post in chat, or relationships?

My only view is whatever rocks your boat, as long as its 2 consenting adults. Not really my kind of thing though, I like my sexual relationship power neutral generally.

[AnonymousKinkyCoward]

OP is confusing BDSM sex games with D/s (etc) lifestyle.

There are people who will do "anything" within the game because the illusion of being completely at the command and mercy of another person is something they find intoxicating and erotic. Equally there are people for whom the illusion of being in control is erotic etc. That's slightly separate from the idea of playing with pain as an aphrodisiac, although of course many will use both.

But the important thing is that in general this is within the game. There are time or practical limits to it really, and certainly sexual limits agreed in advance. If one or other party feels uncomfortable or wishes to stop or redirect the game then they use code words to make that clear without totally breaking the spell.

Within that framework, then, the role someone plays in real life and the role they take in the game can often be opposite. People whose careers are very pressured and senior can in some cases derive comfort from having certain decisions taken out of their hands; some people who are professionally powerless can use the game to assert themselves and feel empowered.

That is not to say that everyone fits that pattern, just that one absolutely cannot judge from a person's public behaviour what their bedroom behaviour might be - although of course that ought to go without saying.

The issue of D/s relationships - that is, playing the game for real, is much more complicated IMHO and not really related to sex. Taking responsibility for another adult's decisions, or abdicating responsibility for one's own decisions to another person, is not something to be taken lightly. It certainly more closely resembles a parent/child dynamic than that of an equal couple. In normal circumstances I would be vaguely worried that the kind of person who would want to have that real power over another wasn't a suitable partner for someone wanting that kind of control - that in too many cases the situation could be taken advantage of, either by a controlling/abusive person, or by someone trying to escape the real responsibilities of adulthood.

There exist a very few situations where an adult does benefit from having choices taken away - for example I'm thinking of a couple where her recovery from eating disorders hinged on the agreement that he got to tell her when and what to eat, while she physically recovered and learned both emotionally and digestively (?) how to eat normally. But that was a very particular situation and a temporary one.

Does that help at all, OP? For what it's worth, I would struggle to call DH "master" except with a hefty dollop of sarcasm, but I do call him "sir" within the game.

Now I must make sure I nc back very carefully before posting on any of my TIO...

[SolidGoldBrass]

Just popping back to add: Informed Consent closed down a few months ago that will teach that fucker to ban me and at the moment there isn't a particular site that covers the whole scene.

OP, have you been reading facts or fiction? If it's mainly fiction you've been reading please be aware that BDSM fiction is about as realistic as Lord Of The Rings or Eastenders - the story is what matters, not how plausible it is.
You could do worse than read some actual non-fiction on the subject. But right now I'm still not entirely sure what you want to know.

[BoundandRebound]

I wonder how bdsm sits within feminist ideals, is it possible to be a sexual submissive and a feminist as a woman?

[mrscynical]

Oh BoundandRebound, it is most certainly possible if YOU are the domme...

[Montybojangles]

Why would you have to be the sexually submissive partner Bound?

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

This thread went a bit weird! Fwiw I think it's fine to ask this question on mumsnet.
I think bdsm sex is one thing, it doesn't float my boat (I couldn't be arsed with all the props and outfits and drama) but some people love that. I also suspect that pain would not make me turned on whatsoever so I'm not interested in trying it. Again, works for some. I think what I think is weird about bdsm is the way your sexual preference becomes a 'lifestyle' such as going to munches which aren't even about sex. I can't imagine going to a pub to meet a load of people who like vanilla sex, because it's not a very interesting (to others) part of my personality. But I suppose bdsm is often a group activity so it makes sense to develop a network.
I don't understand the degradation element of bdsm and I honestly do think there is something dodgy about a person who gets off on spitting in someone's mouth, or pissing on them, or calling them a fucking little slut whore. Likewise I think it's odd to enjoy those things. I think it would do such people well to question why they enjoy degrading/being degraded rather than just unquestioningly accepting it as part of their sexuality.

Living a bdsm lifestyle full time is insane. I can't understand that and I wouldn't want to.

[BoundandRebound]

Oh there's no have to be, I just imagine that sexual proclivities are separate from social ideals so it might be possible for a woman, indeed a feminist, to want to be a sexual submissive and wondered how that would mesh

I don't actually know much about it, haven't even read shades of grey. Was just pondering

[daisychain01]

I realise that this thread has courted controversy before it began, but just giving an opinion, given that is what OP wanted.

I know very little about the relationship dynamics, although I know the mechanics of what goes on. To me, I cant think how it can ever give long term fulfilment, because I cant imagine it ever being a solid foundation on which to build a relationship. It is a "practice", it is something people do, but anything that defines the basis of a relationship and dominates a lifestyle, rather than just being one component of a bigger picture, must surely degrade the relationship over time, eventually get stale and so commonplace that it loses its edginess. Just like porn.

I think it happens when the people concerned have a skewed concept of what sex is about and where it fits in and how it adds value to a relationship.

The thing I am always skeptical about is when people have open relationships and say they are happy with that. No, they have so little self esteem, they have convinced themselves that is all they deserve. Maybe that the same as people wanting to beat each other to a pulp. Ultimately, they think they arent worth better!

[Branleuse]

i think its noone elses business

[lottieandmia]

I had a relationship which involved bdsm and it was very damaging to me indeed, both physically and psychologically and the man took advantage in order to express his violent tendencies.

The problem with mixing violence with sex (which is what it was in my case) is that an abuser is much more able to push your boundaries when you're having sex with them regularly and as the emotional attachment grew I got caught up in something really sinister and unhealthy.

The other person in my relationship used to crush my ribs and bite my face as well as the other things you would associate with bdsm. I was constantly covered in bruises and people would ask what the hell happened. He also would not stop when I asked him to.

I realise that not all bdsm relationships are like this and that in a mutually respectful one everything would have been discussed and agreed on in advance. But they certainly are something an abuser can use as an excuse to hurt their partner, because they are actually a sadist.

I am now in a relationship where we never do anything like that and never have and I'm very happy that I have got far enough away to see how unhealthy it was. But you know, at the time I believed I was enjoying it - it's dangerous ground imo.

[ChocolateTeacup]

I am a domme within my relationship, it started as simply sex and has spilled into our life, my pet calls me Mistress. Every d/s relationship is different, mine is built strongly on love, he wants and needs to please me. It makes him feel happy, there is minimal degradation, there is an element of punishment because he wants and needs it. We do on occasion switch roles but rarely and more when I need it and tell him to.

I am in control of everything, except his smoking habit. He is expected to show correct facing and ask when he wants things. He does what I tell him to. He was the one who initially encouraged it, it is always consensual and done through love.

Sexually, he puts my pleasure first, he only gets his release when I am fully satisfied and happy with him. Yes I 'take' him and he enjoys it. He wears a leather bracelet instead of a collar so he is reminded always.

I want to stress, at anytime he could talk to me frankly and decide he didn't want it in our lives just in sex or he wanted a more conventionally acceptable sex life in full. We would discuss it as equals and move away from the d/s elements. We love each other deeply and that remains firmly at the heart.

[Montybojangles]

my pet calls me mistress quote of the day ChocolateTeacup

[ChocolateTeacup]

Sorry, I call him my pet

[Montybojangles]

I'm starting to feel a bit tempted to try it myself now...

It was a great post by the way, very eloquent. And your relationship sounds great (feels slightly odd saying that about a less "conventional" relationship, but you sound very well balanced and caring of each other).

[KateSMumsnet]

@McNewPants2013

I have asked MN to delete this thread as I don't want to upset other posters.

We try not to delete whole threads unless they break our talk guidelines, or if they turn into a bunfight. We will also may remove threads if it has too much personal info that could cause problems for the OP in real life.

So we're going to leave this thread as it is - but as ever, we will delete posts that break our talk guidelines.

[mrscynical]

Monty - try looking at the Female Led Relationships website.

I am in a similar relationship to ChocolateTeacup and it is the best thing ever. My only regret is not discovering it many years ago.

[Andro]

Would you really not think what it tells you about the people at all Biscuit?

In a relationship where the boundaries, limits and safe words had been openly discussed, it tells me that both parties know what they need and are confident enough to go after it.

BDSM can work, it can be balanced (albeit not in the same way as a vanilla relationship) and it can be healthy. Unfortunately, just like any other relationship it can be abusive, unhealthy and destructive. Whether in a specific scene or as a lifestyle, the undeniable truth of a safe and healthy encounter is that the Dom(me) only has the 'power' because the sub gifts it to them. The is no true domination without freely given submission, there is no freely given submission without trust and everything stops when a safe word is spoken.

Where submission isn't freely given, it's not D/s...it's abuse.
Where a safe word is ignored, it's not D/s...it's abuse.
Where hard limits are not respected, it's not D/s...it's abuse.

[McNewPants2013]

Those replys have been useful. I am not intrested in getting into that kind of relationship.

[TiggyD]

It can be a bit tough on your carpets.

[AgentZigzag]

Some men people undeniably get a kick out of having someone else completely at their mercy, especially when that person definitely isn't consenting.

And because the fine line between it being abusive or healthy is based on something intangible constructed in peoples heads, it's difficult for someone on the outside to judge whether the people are in an abusive relationship or not.

Obviously someone's sex life is their own affair, but if you were looking on at a family member who was saying everything was OK (and genuinely thought it was, like the poster (sorry can't find the name) who said she was black and blue but didn't realise how wrong it was until afterwards) but you didn't think they were, it could be argued that it is your business.

The same as if it were an out and out case of obvious DV and the man regularly raped the woman, would that be completely their own business? (and I understand/agree to some extent with the poster who might say it still would be private).

Is talking about it an important part of it Andro? I mean aside from the laying down of boundaries, that it's part of the 'build up' to the chase IYSWIM? Don't answer if that's being just a bit too nosy