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Original poster

To feel very sorry for Raffaele Sollecito?

267 replies

MarmaladeTwatkins · 01/07/2013 10:36

He was interviewed on that turgid telly programme Daybreak this morning. He has a re-trial hanging over his head and says he doesn't know how much longer he can go on.

I'm in the 'they weren't involved' camp, but even if I wasn't, he was acquitted of the crime he was accused of. Surely it isn't right to dangle this over his head forever. Imagine living with that. Must be awful.

I remarked that I felt sorry for him to another parent this morning who was discussing it and she said "Well your sympathy is misplaced." Hmm I don't think that I am being U in feeling sympathy for him, or Amanda Knox.

OP posts:
Portofino · 01/07/2013 23:17

I feel hugely for Meredith's family,thanks. I think they are best served by knowing the truth, and not being put through this fucking shambles to be honest. Fine if you want to do speculation based on Daily Mail reports.

ExcuseTypos · 01/07/2013 23:19

I agree saucy. It's blooming depressing that people would believe that is 'evidence' that you've murdered someone.

Wuldric · 01/07/2013 23:22

The one thing that the case did prove is that the crime could not have been committed by the black guy on his own, Nicholas. So no, not much solace. You can tuck yourself up in comfort that the white middle class kids could never ever have done such a deed, if you like. But I am not one to lie to myself because the kids look and feel like mine, And ultimately, this is what you are doing. Do make sure you donate plenty of money to defend them. After all, that's money well spent, no?

Portofino · 01/07/2013 23:23

Um no the forensics did not prove that all.

NicholasTeakozy · 01/07/2013 23:24

Boomba 23.14.04
but nicholas said there were lots of threads where there was proof of their innocence

A tad different to what I actually said, which was:-

Look at the original thread where proof is provided by many of their innocence

Now, if you can't tell these statements apart perhaps you should hand your English GCSE back. And I can pick up my pendant award.

Yes, pendant. Not pedant.

Boomba · 01/07/2013 23:31

I am interested in this case. Im not that invested in it. I dont feel as strongly about it as you obviously do. I cant really be bothered to trade insults with you Confused

NicholasTeakozy · 01/07/2013 23:34

Well done for getting my class so fucking wrong it's unbelievable Wuldric. My family is so middle class that my son is the first family member ever to go to university. We're working class and proud. We just value the truth. Something which seems to be eluding you.

I might not be as educated as you but I can sniff out bullshit. This case was built on misogyny. It fitted what the prosecutor wanted to believe. Look him up online, he has form.

I cannot be arsed to trawl through all my posts on here to post what I did tearing some fuckwit argument to pieces, but it's all there somewhere.

Portofino · 01/07/2013 23:35

Wuldric, what are your trying to imply about Rudi Guede? Well he was undoubtably there. He left DNA, a palm print. It was the reason he was arrested, after he fled the country. Are we trying to blame him unfairly cos he is black and not middle class? Or should his undoubted participation in the crime be over looked as there are some white mc people who are probably guilty as they smoked some pot and looked a bit funny the next day....

Boomba · 01/07/2013 23:38

well, if you cant be arsed, im sure no one else will be

DoctorAnge · 01/07/2013 23:41

GUede IS middle class!

sashh · 01/07/2013 23:42

Anyone who has read anything at all by the more impartial journalists vs the gutter press will know this was all a load of old bollocks. There is NO evidence to accuse either AK or RS of this crime

So AK and RS's mobile phones wandered around Perugia on their own?

And RS's computer googled how to clean blood off knives on its own as well?

AK keeps telling us that she was interviewed for hours in Italian, which is true, but, she doesn't mention that an interpreter arrived after just one hour.

Portofino · 01/07/2013 23:42

Still guilty though.

EldritchCleavage · 01/07/2013 23:54

Crikey, I go off to do a bit of Real Life and you lot fall on each other like cats in a sack.

Neither camp sat through the evidence in court (for which there is no substitute) so can't ever really know the totality of the evidence, and neither 'side' is ever going to persuade the other. So there isn't any point lobbing brickbats at each other on this thread.

I hope we can all agree a retrial is a bloody hard thing and hope to goodness it at least arrives at a conclusive, persuasively argued and final verdict.

sashh · 02/07/2013 00:15

Can I just point out this is an appeal not a new trial. It is a routine part of the Italian legal system.

BringMeTea · 02/07/2013 00:45

Team Wuldric. 100%

Sparklysilversequins · 02/07/2013 07:53

ssash can you link?

Portofino · 02/07/2013 08:53

Can you link to the evidence re the phones and the computer? I know the laptops were wiped so it would be impossible to put that sort of evidence in front of the court. There are detailed reports on the phones and where they were/weren't.

The knife evidence was slated at the appeal.

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 09:16

"I do think that you are over-engaged and over-emotional in all this, but you seem to be blinkered in your belief that they are innocent. It is not possible to argue rationally with people in the thrall of belief despite any evidence"

I suppose it depends on your definition of over-emotional/over-engaged. If it involves starting a discussion thread on an internet talk board and flinging ten quid at an appeal fund then yeah, I'm well in. Hmm If anyone's been hysterical on this thread it's you, Wuldric. Comparing someone whose involvement in a case extends to talking on a chat thread and a small donation to someone in a relationship with convicted murderers on death row suggests that your perspective might need working on, to say the least.

And all of this reducing them to their looks, what's that all about? "Pretty" doesn't even come into it. As it happens, RS is an average-looking bloke. As I said in my deleted post, I am working-class. My mother lives in a council house. My dad has money but he is self-made. So class-based sympathy also doesn't wash. It's called empathy for another human being. I think it's sad that you need to look for reasons beyond human kindness for why someone might feel this way.

I believe that the person responsible has been caught. He opted for a fast-track trial to reduce his sentence. He knew he'd done it. If you can provide evidence that WASN'T disproved in court, that might persuade some of us otherwise.

I will try and dig out that thread in ITN, Nicholas. It was very informative from what I remember.

OP posts:
Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 09:23

I think this is the one

OP posts:
NicholasTeakozy · 02/07/2013 09:49

Yep, that's the one Marms. It's just a bit depressing that nearly two years later we're having the same arguments. Except I'd forgotten just how corrupt and useless the prosecutor was.

sashh · 02/07/2013 10:05

I did have a record of the phone calls, but can't find it.

The first link gives an 'integrated time line' of the mobile phone records. I don't know how biased it is, the writers obviously believe Sollecito and Knox are guilty so it is not an unbiased version of events, but the phone records are from the trial.

truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/updating_our_scenarios_and_timelines_2_an_integrated_comparison_of_the/

The next tries to just list facts, but then again starts being biased

aklwei.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/the-actual-case-against-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito/

abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7131195&page=1#.UdKVJJye2LA

This one shows a different time line, and is biased towards RS/AK

www.injusticeinperugia.org/timeline-2.html

Finally English translation of the Masssei report.

masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/inconsistencies-in-and-refutations-of-amanda-knoxs-account/

Another copy of the Massei report, in Italian and translated by volunteers.

noblegiraffe · 02/07/2013 10:28

I've just started reading that Massei report and it bangs on for ages that Knox's claim they ate dinner at 10pm is refuted as RS told his dad on the phone at half eight that he had noticed a water leak while washing the dishes.

Because of course people only ever wash dishes after dinner Hmm. Is that the standard of evidence of the rest of it?

Portofino · 02/07/2013 10:30

Pretty much. And the Hellman report is quite scathing about it.

Portofino · 02/07/2013 10:31

Hellman report

noblegiraffe · 02/07/2013 10:37

Next up we have a homeless guy who didn't know them claiming he saw them out that evening. Followed by a phonecall RS's father made to him at a time when Amanda claims to have been asleep, that she never mentioned. The report concludes that she didn't mention it because she wasn't in the house when it happened (er, or asleep as she claimed?).

This is serious bullshit.