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AIBU?

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Original poster

To feel very sorry for Raffaele Sollecito?

267 replies

MarmaladeTwatkins · 01/07/2013 10:36

He was interviewed on that turgid telly programme Daybreak this morning. He has a re-trial hanging over his head and says he doesn't know how much longer he can go on.

I'm in the 'they weren't involved' camp, but even if I wasn't, he was acquitted of the crime he was accused of. Surely it isn't right to dangle this over his head forever. Imagine living with that. Must be awful.

I remarked that I felt sorry for him to another parent this morning who was discussing it and she said "Well your sympathy is misplaced." Hmm I don't think that I am being U in feeling sympathy for him, or Amanda Knox.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 02/07/2013 12:54

So you've read that it is possible to get people to even confess to crimes they didn't commit through poor interrogation methods and yet instead of being angry at the Italian police for leading Knox to blame an innocent man, and his arrest and imprisonment, you are blaming her?

Do you not have any sympathy for the people who confess to crimes they didn't commit, for their confessions either?

Curioustiger · 02/07/2013 13:09

No, I feel very sorry for people who make false confessions. Not least because they are often of diminished mental capacity or are mentally ill. That's not the same as accusing someone else though is it? In the case of a false confession, the only person who suffers is the confessor (and the victim's family, by extension). In this case an innocent man has been grossly slandered. And despite suggestions up thread I think the effect on him must have been pretty material.

With regard to the police it seems that their incompetence / fixation on certain aspects of the crime over others has ruined the chances of there ever being real justice for Meredith or any kind of closure for her family. I and probably everyone on this thread blame them for that. Just because the police bungled the investigation though still doesn't make it ok to blame someone else.

noblegiraffe · 02/07/2013 13:11

No, I would have thought it would be even easier for the police to get someone to point the finger at someone else.

Re justice for Meredith - the guy who murdered her is in prison!

Curioustiger · 02/07/2013 13:13

It might be easier but it's still not right to accuse an innocent man of a crime he didn't commit.

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 13:19

But Amanda Knox didn't just throw that name out there, did she?

Remember, the police mislead her AND exploited the fact that her Italian was sketchy. They told her that RS had implicated her in the murder, had told them that he was not with her that night (he explicitly told police that he WAS with her all night even though it is apparent that the police were goading him to say that they were apart that night, so that they could release him and focus their efforts on AK) and that AK had been at the house at the time of the murder. They then presented her with a hypothetical situation in which Patrick Lumumba might have been in the house and asked her to imagine what he might have been doing there. I would imagine that A LOT got lost in translation here. She didn't explicitly name PL as the killer, just discussed him in the context in which the police were leading her to. Remember also that they had found a hair belonging to a black person in the house and the text from AK to PL saying "See you later" when he had text her to say not to come to work that night. The police took "see you later" as hard evidence that AK and PL were planning on meeting the night the murder took place. Imagine having all of that fired at you, in a language you have scant knowledge of. I, at that age, would shit myself and want to get out of there and probably do or say what I thought the police wanted to hear. Not many kids of that age would feel any differently.

OP posts:
pommedechocolat · 02/07/2013 13:22

What I don't understand is that Rudy Guede has a reduced sentence for not being the only one iirc? If AK and RS are found not guilty wouldn't his sentence be changed?

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 13:26

No.

RG got a reduced sentence because he went through a fast track trial. Basically, this is the option for (as I understand it) defendants who are basically fucked either because they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty, the prosecution is going to absolutely trounce the defence, they have no defence because of poor finances... So as a "reward" for not dragging out the trial process, they accept a reduced sentence which, let's face it, if you are going to be found guilty, is preferable to a 30-35 year stretch. 16 years for murder is pretty good, tbh.

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Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 13:29

Apparently, he will be eligible for work parole (allowed out of prison to work) in 2014. Will investigate that more, though...

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sashh · 02/07/2013 13:30

but he has not suffered to the degree anyone else has.

No losing his livelihood, spending time in jail accused of murder with no evidence, not much suffering at all.

BTW I DID say that the links were biased and I did post links from both sides.

Can someone explain to me why Rudy Guede's DNA wasn't found in the small bathroom?

Or was it and I've missed that?

Curioustiger · 02/07/2013 13:36

Ultimately the point about ak's defamation of PL boils down to do you think it was unreasonable for an adult woman to agree that her boss murdered her friend when put under pressure from interrogators during a 14 hour stretch. I accept the interrogation must have been terrifying, and that her language ability was limited. But I still think she was wrong, and her subsequent conviction and the failure of her appeal against her conviction do demonstrate that there's a weight of opinion in my favour.

Honestly I think if I was in that situation I would have just kept saying that I don't understand or want a lawyer.i don't for a second think that I'm unusually moral either, I personally believe most people I know well would do the same. None of us really know how we'd react under that kind of pressure but I think you're being overly charitable marmalade.

Curioustiger · 02/07/2013 13:39

Also wrt the police lying and saying that RS did not confirm her alibi, or coming up with the suggestion of PL... That us their job. I would expect the police to do that. It's a pretty well known technique as well I've seen it on Castle

NicholasTeakozy · 02/07/2013 13:40

No, his sentence was as a result of going for a fast track trial because he knew he'd be found guilty. Because he was the one who killed Meredith, not Raffaele and Amanda.

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 13:42

" None of us really know how we'd react under that kind of pressure but I think you're being overly charitable marmalade."

I think that that ^ is key.

I know what I would have done in her situation, had I been a naïve, young woman in a foreign country.

Also, she was being questioned, at this time, as a witness. The police had told her that to ask for a solicitor is as good as admitting you're involved. She didn't think, at that point, that a solicitor was needed. She could have gone home. She didn't. She stayed because she thought she could help. A decision she will rue for the rest of her life.

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DuelingFanjo · 02/07/2013 13:47

"For those of you who are determined that Knox/Sollecito are innocent, for reasons best known to yourselves, I would remind you that a lovely young girl was murdered. "

how strange. The evidence overwhelmingly shows they are not guilty.

Maybe this poster is one of those strange people who post on the sites that are determined that 'foxy knoxy' is some kind of she devil? scary people.

You know, them being innocent doesn't take away from the fact that a girl was murdered. In fact the person who murdered her is still in prison.

DuelingFanjo · 02/07/2013 13:49

and how shocking that you call him the 'black guy' rather than using his real name. That's a bit fucked up right there!

Portofino · 02/07/2013 13:53

I don't think they found Guede's DNA in the small bathroom. Just Meredith's and Amanda's,

MNHQ
JulieMumsnet · 02/07/2013 19:52

You know about our talk guidelines? Wink

TheDoctrineOfAllan · 02/07/2013 20:01

What Sashh said about the Italian justice system.

And yes, even if a person has definitely committed another crime, say shoplifting, I would still have sympathy with them if they were falsely accused of murder.

Portofino · 02/07/2013 20:09

It appears from the appeal report that under Italian law she was guilty of incriminating Lumumba but they took her age and the circumstances into account re. Sentencing. Hmm but they were very clear that despite what she said, it did not necessary implicate her in the murder - which was the prosecutions approach.

cupcake12 · 02/07/2013 20:42

Amanda Knox was interrogated by police for 43 hours over 5 days after the murder. The last 8 hours, 12 detectives interviewed her overnight from 10.30pm to 6.30am in Italian when she had only the basics of the spoken language.

Fresh pairs of detectives came in every so often to renew the pressure. They asked the same questions over and over, they shouted, they told her to imagine their chosen scenario. They (allegedly) hit her on the back of the head.

She had no food or drink and was menstruating. When she asked whether she should have a lawyer, she was told 'it would make it worse'. Why? Why would the police deny her her basic rights?

If you are seeking the truth you make the person comfortable and relaxed.

If you want to confuse and break someone, this aggressive interrogation technique is a trusted tactic. (See FBI agent Steve Moore's comments about this in connection with the case www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI7.html)

As mothers we have probably all suffered minor sleep deprivation with newborns. Can you imagine Amanda's state of mind after this final ruthless interrogation? Its aim is to deplete the person of rational thought, to make them anxious and confused and pliable.

I wonder how we - or our daughters - would have reacted in the same circumstances at that age in a strange country and a strange tongue.

Before she was even tried, Amanda was kept in jail ('for her own good') because she was considered a flight risk. Raffaele Sollecito was kept in solitary for six months. Six months in solitary. Imagine it.

They are both innocent, they are both victims and they and their families are financially broke. There is no evidence against them. and the Italian Supreme Court's ruling has ensured that their recently reclaimed lives are now firmly on hold. Maybe for years and years and years.

New Scientist's latest report on new software to detect DNA supports the innocence of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. (See www.newscientist.com/article/dn23790-software-says-amanda-knoxs-dna-wasnt-at-crime-scene.html#.UdMqNfnrx2M)

My heart bleeds for Meredith Kercher and her family, but two wrongs do not make a right.

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 21:26

Excellent post, cupcake.

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Portofino · 02/07/2013 21:41

Agree. It makes me so fucking cross that people rehash the daily fail view each time this topic comes up here. Anyone with a brain can see there is no evidence. This was epitomised by the daily fail headline that they published the night they were acquitted. Guilty, and supposed comments from all those involved. Totally made up. It was quickly deleted of course.

Portofino · 02/07/2013 21:45

And as someone obviously reported this thread, I would like to make clear to MNHQ that they were both acquitted and in my view commenting on their innocence does not breach talk guidelines.

Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/07/2013 21:49

And if MNHQ are referring to personal insults, there is more than one way to personally insult, as Wuldric aptly demonstrates above...

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Portofino · 02/07/2013 21:53

And it is interesting how It always comes back to AK when this is not what the thread was about. I am probably equally guilty.