to think that fox hunting ban might have been a mistake?

[lessonsintightropes]

I live in suburban South London and have done for donkeys. Over the last five years foxes have been encroaching a lot into our neighbourhood and have killed a couple of cats, and regularly torn up bins etc. I know at least nine individual foxes by sight. I'm in zone 3!

I was always rabidly anti-hunting on cruelty grounds when I was ill informed younger. My DBrother and DSis live in very rural Hampshire; she used to hunt and now they drag-hunt exclusively, but they lose a lot of chickens, ducks and cats despite stalagluft-style electric fences.

I've rethought my position over time and have come to the conclusion that town people shouldn't dictate to country people how to live, and vice versa. Especially when countryside vermin start inhabiting my street!

What makes me a bit anxious is the risk to children and domestic pets from a growing fox population. It's certainly made my cat anxious and makes me freak out a bit when I see something dog sized in my tiny suburban garden, but am also well prepared to listen to arguments the other direction (although I will always wish they don't rip up my recycling bags).

Would love to know what the MN jury has to say?

Er, were there many hunts, prior to the ban, in suburban South London?

I agree with you.

They move into towns when the numbers get too high in the surrounding countryside. If numbers are kept dow in the countryside, they have room to live and hunt there and don't need to move into town and rip up garbage and eat cats.

I really don't think fox-hunting does that much to keep down the fox population anywhere. I'm sure I read something about how if a fox is killed by the hunt another fox will take over its patch so it makes no difference. It's certainly not a very time-effective method of killing foxes.

I'm a country girl. On the one hand the fact of people actively setting out to kill something for fun creeps me out, on the other hand I do think foxes are vermin and cause a lot of damage.

Basically, I'm going to say YABU because the hunting ban will not have made any difference at all to fox populations in zone 3 London! City foxes are cheeky fuckers.

I live in a London Borough and to this day I've never seen a bunch of blood thirsty knobbers on horsback...jumping over the garden fences with a pack of blood thirsty hounds, loving every minute of terrorising a small animal to death.

We simply ring council pest control.

I don't think the ban has actually stopped then hunting, not round here anyway.

I agree with you OP.

Foxes are vermin. Dangerous vermin.

There are ways to control the population of wild animals that are becoming a problem.

Dressing up like pompous fools, making it a fun "sporting" event and allowing the dogs to rip apart said animal is not necessary.

They don't bloody do that when culling badgers etc do they?

Killing foxes isn't illegal, indeed the hunt itself isn't illegal, just using dogs to do it.

If we do become over run with foxes they will be culled, in a humanely as possible way.

The fact is that hunting never killed large numbers of foxes, despite media reports to the contrary.

Foxes are in the same category as pigeons and rats. If you don't want them in cities then there needs to be no litter, and food waste needs to be disposed of securely. Until that happens they will continue to thrive.

There has been little change in the overall fox population since before the ban.

More foxes were killed by cars and died of natural causes than hunting

Pre the ban hunts only accounted for about 5% of fix deaths in the UK

Most urban foxes live on small rodents and carrion rather than raiding bins

Foxes are getting bolder because loony people feed them

YABU

You are confusing two things:

1. Foxes are vermin and generally should be kept down. Hunting is not about keeping the fox population down. It is about having a rousing good gallop across country.

1. Having a rousing good gallop across country really annoys socialists. They don't like the fact that you have to have a certain degree of wealth to enjoy said gallop. So, how best to stop these wealthy people from enjoying themselves? I know, let's ban foxhunting.

It'll be polo next. And yachting. Have you seen the cruelty to minnows involved in yachting?

I agree it is the rise in food waste over the years that has enabled the urban fox to thrive, and that fox hunting never did kill a significant amount of foxes. It was the cruelty of the sport that protesters objected to.

We have marginally less foxes around here since the introduction of the council wheelie bins 18 months ago.

But we never had any at all until the late 70s when the high street opened 4 takeaways in close proximity.

The same high street now has approximately 18 or 20 takeaways and restaurants. If you're out and about early on a Sunday morning, you can play 'dodge the chicken bones and pizza boxes' whilst walking the dog.

If that's true then I would say the rise in food waste has icreased the number of rats, therefore giving foxes more food.

And yes, loony people do feed them like my mil

Sorry I meant to quote

Most urban foxes live on small rodents and carrion rather than raiding bins"

If that's true.

That sounds like I'm saying it's not true now I do believe it, I'm just very tired and can't type coherently :)

There is someone on here called CrackFox and I feel strongly that they need to weigh in with their opinion on this thread.

2. Having a rousing good gallop across country really annoys socialists. They don't like the fact that you have to have a certain degree of wealth to enjoy said gallop. So, how best to stop these wealthy people from enjoying themselves? I know, let's ban foxhunting.

I disagree

I'm sure most people are too busy getting on with their lives to give a shiny shit how 'wealthy' people spend their leisure time.

I think it's the thigh rubbing and glee derived from terrorising a small animal before it's either ripped to shreds, or dies of sheer fright. That's what makes many normal minded people think they're sick fuckers.

When the council come to cull vermin, they just get on with their job.

They don't tend to slap one another on the back and swap stories of how they enjoyed the animal's demise.

Halos you've confused the fuck out of me

I can only say what I see (Roy Walker stylee) and when we had to put bin bags out the front (before wheelie bins) the foxes used to rip them to shreds right before your eyes.

One cheeky fecker barely moved his arse to one side, so my DS could pass him on the path. It was too busy devouring the Sunday roast carcass to care.

There are wealthy people that despise fox hunting too!

I'm happy with what we've got, I'm certainly not envious of rich folk having fun, just not at the expense of terrfying a small animal unecessarily. Other that they can do what they like, wearing their most pomp-tastic finery

Yeah yeah. Are you seriously claiming that the ban on fox-hunting had anything to do with animal welfare? Seriously?

Foxes are vermin, old love. When they are killed by hounds they are killed rapidly and painlessly. It is another thing that most actual hunts do not result in a kill.

If you were to make the argument about animal cruelty on stag-hunting, then I don't think anyone would disagree with you. Stag-hunting is repugnant. Fox hunting is the equivalent of putting a mouse trap in your kitchen.

I've confused myself! I do wish we had an edit button.

I saw a fox in a field once. That's about it...

Why don't you do something else with your horse. What about the horse-dancing thing?

yeah, dressage. do that.