to think that fox hunting ban might have been a mistake?

[lessonsintightropes]

I live in suburban South London and have done for donkeys. Over the last five years foxes have been encroaching a lot into our neighbourhood and have killed a couple of cats, and regularly torn up bins etc. I know at least nine individual foxes by sight. I'm in zone 3!

I was always rabidly anti-hunting on cruelty grounds when I was ill informed younger. My DBrother and DSis live in very rural Hampshire; she used to hunt and now they drag-hunt exclusively, but they lose a lot of chickens, ducks and cats despite stalagluft-style electric fences.

I've rethought my position over time and have come to the conclusion that town people shouldn't dictate to country people how to live, and vice versa. Especially when countryside vermin start inhabiting my street!

What makes me a bit anxious is the risk to children and domestic pets from a growing fox population. It's certainly made my cat anxious and makes me freak out a bit when I see something dog sized in my tiny suburban garden, but am also well prepared to listen to arguments the other direction (although I will always wish they don't rip up my recycling bags).

Would love to know what the MN jury has to say?

Hunting is not an elitist sport, that's the stupid thing. Blair and the loony left got the idea that only posh people hunt - and lots of posh people DO hunt - but actually a hunt is a chance for the whole village to get out in the countryside together. People without horses follow the hunt on foot and have a nice day out. I've never hunted, but members of my family do (and we're not particularly posh), and I've seen people from all walks of life join in the hunt.

As others have already said, fox hunting is a sport, not a serious way to cull foxes and FWIW I don't really agree with tearing a fox limb from limb - much better to shoot the bloody thing.

If there is a fox problem in your area it's much more likely to be down to squeezed council budgets cutting the humane culling program in your area via pest control officers.

lacka you asked me a direct question re my point, and when I answered it, ignored my response. For me, that is typical of the anti-fox hunting brigade.
i remember at uni there were all these labour voting class warriors who were anti fox hunting, typically after uni they would get a hair cut and go and work for ICI or some similar company.
it did amuse me.
they would use the union minibus to drive 300 miles to the VAle of Aylesbury for their sabbing, a nice soft target, cos if they had come face to face with a load of Welsh farmers on horseback, they would have poo-ed their pants.
hypocrites to a man/woman.

but most people here are against all blood "sports". No-one is saying that they support anything other than culling in as humane a way as possible. The fishing thing, is, in the context of this argument, irrelevant.

The fox hunting ban hasn't actually stopped foxes being hunted anyway, there's lots of loop holes that are used. I doubt its had much influence on the increase of foxes in urban areas.

Oh, was there a time limit on my just posted response?

twat.

Fox hunting is not an efficent way of culling foxes. Prehaps in medievil times it was the most effective way and kinder than traps. If you wanted to kill lots of foxes humanely you would have one man on foot with one highly trained dog to help him track down the scent and shoot the fox.

Pest control are practical people and are as quick as possible.

The fishing thing, is, in the context of this argument, irrelevant
not at all - is it not just as 'cruel'? yet it doesn't raise the same levels of passion at all - and that is because the argument is about class, about urban vs rural, nothing to do with animal welfare. A valid argument I think, not one to be simply ignored or dismissed if you find it uncomfortable.

and lacka please could you clarify your post of 10.54?
who is a twat exactly?

ReallyTired, Foxhunting isn't a medieval sport.
In medieval and Tudor times, hunting was a sport, but you tended to eat the deer, boar or whatever. Likewise with falconry or hunting with dogs.
Fox were trapped for the pelts to use as decoration on clothing.

Fox-hunting is really an 18th century creation.

Burberry queen, are you saying that Welsh farmers on horseback are thugs who would take the law into their own hands when faced with sabs?

"and lacka please could you clarify your post of 10.54?
who is a twat exactly?"

OK...

"lacka you asked me a direct question re my point, and when I answered it, ignored my response. For me, that is typical of the anti-fox hunting brigade..."

you posted about fishing...I posted what's your point...you posted about it being a class issue...I responded to a point Cat had made, then saw your post about class, went for a slash, picked my nose, formulated a response to your point and then posted it...and saw you had posted the above, hence my post of 10.54

and you would be the twat.

I hope that is now clear.

so i posted something you don't agree with and so you called me a 'twat' or in other words a 'cunt' - thanks a lot, good level of argument! I can see you must have had a good education!
eyes - more possibly than the Vale of Aylesbury,yes.

once again lacks the anti's have shown their level

Now you are bieng ridiculous as well. I have said I do not agree with recreational fishing, and now I am ignoring it as I find the issue uncomfortable?

It's irrelevant in that the argument here is about the effectiveness of hunting as a means of controlling fox populations.

No, I called you a twat for stamping your feet and waaahing about me not responding to your point in a timeframe that suited you.

If you need to control the fox population then so be it, in as humane and stress free a way as possible.

You don't need to make a sport out of it.

Don't forget some hunts were breeding foxes so they had something to chase.

read back if that is what you think - you posted at 10.44 to which i responded at 10.50.
you obviously have comprehension problems.
bye, and i am not lowering myself to shouting childish insults.

what?

So dissing my level of eduation isn't a childish insult?

whatever

one person on this large thread calls another one a twat and someone posts, once again lacks the anti's have shown their level

Really?

Why not just stick to the argument you're losing?

You think taking pleasure from torturing and ripping small animals apart is a perfectly healthy pass time.

The 'antis' think it's thuggish behaviour displayed by sick minded individuals.

There, the thread's back on track.

it's just a non argument. if the fox population, deers, badgers etc need to be controlled then any humane society will make that way as low key, humane and dignified as possible? surely?

Worra

There is no possible justification for bear-baiting, dog-fighting, hare coursing, wife-beating and fox hunting in the 21st century. Society evolves, hopefully upwards aspiring to better things.

I live in a rural area and married into a farming family, the hunt is a longstanding tradition. I do not feel strongly on the issue of hunting but the hunt was never a means of pest control - when they are pests we shoot them. Urban fox issues are about ready food sources

worra - the voice of reason

No the fox hunting ban was not a bad idea, humans don't seem to understand if you leave bins out (and to be fair this is a council issue, and often to do with poor waste disposal by businesses) not in sturdy containers foxes will thrive on the throw out of people. This is why the population has accelerated, also many people in suburban areas feed foxes also making sure the foxes thrive whether on purpose and inadvertantly.

Remember the whole scandal of foxes being supported and bred in order for them to be killed - fox hunting a moronic and barbaric thing to do and even if you were someone who believed in culling (which again, no proof it actually helps numbers, the animals get stronger due to less competition for food and produce more and healthier young) fox hunting is a disgusting way to kill any animal.

Councils need to enforce a better standard of tidying up after people to ensure numbers don't get out of control.

I hate foxes, they terrify the life out of me! We have loads of the cunts precious creatures here too. I think they need controlling and the population bringing down, but fox hunting just seems barbaric to me. Surely there's nicer ways to cull?