to think that fox hunting ban might have been a mistake?

[lessonsintightropes]

I live in suburban South London and have done for donkeys. Over the last five years foxes have been encroaching a lot into our neighbourhood and have killed a couple of cats, and regularly torn up bins etc. I know at least nine individual foxes by sight. I'm in zone 3!

I was always rabidly anti-hunting on cruelty grounds when I was ill informed younger. My DBrother and DSis live in very rural Hampshire; she used to hunt and now they drag-hunt exclusively, but they lose a lot of chickens, ducks and cats despite stalagluft-style electric fences.

I've rethought my position over time and have come to the conclusion that town people shouldn't dictate to country people how to live, and vice versa. Especially when countryside vermin start inhabiting my street!

What makes me a bit anxious is the risk to children and domestic pets from a growing fox population. It's certainly made my cat anxious and makes me freak out a bit when I see something dog sized in my tiny suburban garden, but am also well prepared to listen to arguments the other direction (although I will always wish they don't rip up my recycling bags).

Would love to know what the MN jury has to say?

[zippey]

If you are worried about the fix population, a humane cull rather than an organised hunt would be far more effective. Campaign for this rather than bring hunting back.

Fixes do kill cats but cats kill animals too, and are intimidated by dogs. Humans kill too. I don't agree with hunting down cats, dogs or humans.

The dressing up is fine but why don't ex hunters go for a nice jolly social gallop rather than killing an animal?

I don't think foxes are the only animals to kill for pleasure, cats do this too.

[TheRealFellatio]

Do you honestly think that a bunch of posh people in funny clothes churning up the countryside for four hours of a Sunday in order to kill just one fox is going to have any impact whatsoever on the urban fox problem?

Yes there is an urban fox problem and it needs dealing with, but seriously, fox hunting on horseback is not the way, and never has been really. Anyone who thinks fox hunting is about actually controlling foxes is very naive.

[McGeeDiNozzo]

Any view I have on fox-hunting is overshadowed by the more-or-less-fact-but-actually-it's-just-my-opinion-I-suppose that the fox-hunting ban was very likely intended to be a distraction from the much much worse shit being done by the Labour Party at the time (Iraq, civil liberties, and so on). It was an easy win for them, because it's not hard to pick the right side.

[Madamecastafiore]

I lived in SE London until 6 years ago and would have agreed with you. Now live in the country and only time we see foxes is as road kill.

So not sure.

In towns they are vermin, big rats out to shit on your patio, kill your pets and rip open your rubbish but here, well I don't see the damage they do do would probably say leave them alone.

[EMUZ]

I'm confused, well sort of. So if fox hunting doesn't control the fox population, and in my understanding very few foxes get caught, usually the ill and elderly ones do. People say its cruel etc but some agree the fox population needs controlling
So the ones who think its cruel but don't think the population is a problem, would you be happier with one fox killed by a hunt or 30 taken out with a gun? Not as an argument but just different points of view are interesting (we had to debate it at Uni). Maybe I'm saying if its such a rubbish way of controlling the population because few are caught then why do people get up in arms about it, is it the class thing? Because dog fighting is cruel but you don't see people marching/petitioning etc, it just seems fox hunting causes such a huge divide.
Personally for me there are other aspects of animal cruelty that bother me more, but that's because I see a fox as equal to a rat really
Bear with me, it sounded better in my head

[Uptheairymountain]

Dog fighting has been illegal in the UK since 1835; there was plenty of campaigning and lobbying the government back then. No need any more to start petitions against it.

On one hand, I find it hard to get overwrought over foxes but on the other - what UsualSuspect said. Fox hunting being made illegal stopped undeniable cruelty to animals taking place so made our country a slightly better place.

[EMUZ]

But dog fighting still goes on. I haven't seen a case recently that made the paper but I did see one about someone pulled for hunting. It just seems to cause more uproar and disgust than other types of animal things

[nooka]

Dog fighting is already illegal and has been since 1835, so why would people be protesting about it. Dog fights still do occur, but they happen underground and the police are fairly active in tracking down pit battles (possibly because they are strongly associated with organised crime and the drug trade).

Hunting foxes with dogs was a bit of an outlier as so many of the blood sports were made illegal a very long time ago, but hunting was instead celebrated. I do agree that it was a bit of a handy distraction for the government of the time.

I'm not keen on rural foxes because I've seen a few lambs ripped apart, and urban foxes can be bloody noisy at night (I grew up in South London zone 3 and there have always been lots of foxes IME). Shooting them when they become a nuisance seems a perfectly acceptable solution to me.

[Uptheairymountain]

It does arouse strong feelings in some people but they tend to be the ones who campaign against other forms of animal cruelty as well and are vocal on many issues. Mainly, people just think fox hunting is unpleasant. Probably because of the sport angle, which is inseparable from it.

[EachAndEveryHighway]

Where we are, fox numbers haven't got worse since the hunting ban, they've got a lot better - I think the local gamekeepers shoot them, keeping numbers down. I know I haven't had a problem with them snaffling my chickens for a long time, even though I forget to shut them in at night now and then. I also think better for the fox a quick bullet from a gamekeeper than being ripped to shreds by dogs - and all those dickheads on horses do more damage to farmers fields than the good they claimed to do keeping vermin numbers down.

[BrianButterfield]

The hunts, in full regalia, still seem to go on a lot and I know teenagers (from a rural comp) who go on them - dunno what they chase but banning fox hunting certainly hasn't stopped hunts!

[pinkballetflats]

Wuldric - i really couldn't care less how to"rich" people live.

Banning fox hunting Imo still in agreeable with you you(and also apparently flags me up as a socialist ) There is something inherently disturbing about adults who think nothing of torturing a bring weaker than themselves for hours for fun.

However, keeping the fox population down through quick and relative pain free measures? I have no problem with that at all.

[pinkballetflats]

I meant I agree with the fox hunting ban.

[EugenesAxe]

I don't think the idea behind hunting (prolonged terror and a potentially nasty death) is something I could condone, but I'm not fluffy about animals outside of that, so I'd be quite happy to have councils arrange regular instant-death-through-guns type of culls.

[catgirl1976]

I love a good gallop across the countryside

What I don't love is animals being terrified, exhausted, dug out when they go to ground and ripped to pieces

YABU

[HomageToCannelloni]

YABU. The biggest issue we have with foxes is people catching them in suburbia and dumping them in the countryside. We have had at least three instances of this in the last year here. The foxes tend to starve. There is evidently a suburban fox issue, but I can't see hunting in towns taking off. ;)
I have had chickens that free range for the last year and thus far have been very lucky and not lost a single one to a fox (you watch, now we will).
Being a country bumpkin I am fairly dispassionate about foxes, unless they eat my birds, but There are FAR more humane ways of dispatching a fox than hunting, perhaps if you had seen one torn to pieces by dogs having been chased to exhaustion you would feel differently.

[HomageToCannelloni]

Foxes are vermin, old love. When they are killed by hounds they are killed rapidly and painlessly. It is another thing that most actual hunts do not result in a kill.

Rapidly and painlessly?? Being ripped apart alive? I suppose you are able to back that statement up with scientific evidence, right? :o

[KittensoftPuppydog]

What about we get some of the local lads in south London, give them nice red hoodies, and let them chase the foxes down with their 'status' dogs. They could then rip the foxes to bits for their own amusement. I'm sure lots of followers would enjoy it too.
no?
Why not?
Maybe because it's sick and disgusting.

[SignoraStronza]

What hunting ban? As far as I'm aware, they carry on just as before anyway - just more careful not to get caught. Where I used to live (in the sticks), the hunt had artificial earths and their staff regularly fed the foxes to ensure enough sport for the bankers and police chiefs when they came down to their country residences for the weekend.

The hunting ban had made very little difference - only I expect that farmers are more likely to just shoot the foxes without ceremony and hours of preceeding torture.

[TheFallenNinja]

The ban had nothing to do with foxes, it was only about one set not wanting another set to do what they wanted.

One set just had better lawyers.

[catgirl1976]

And a majority view Ninja

[LessMissAbs]

I live in the countryside and passed a bit of wild ground with a notice that read 'fox control - keep dogs on leads'. I can only guess they are snaring foxes.

In which case I have to agree with you Oap, because fox hunting on horseback is effective at getting into those places guns cannot.

As for wealthy people doing it, I think rather its rural people. Would the posters who object to people spending their money on horses also object to rich people spending their money on luxury cars, drugs, exotic holidays, restaurants, etc? Or to people dressing up for a night on the town?

I think the ban was mire about controlling people, than fox welfare.

[AmberLeaf]

Ive lived in SE London pretty much all of my life and there has always been lots of foxes.

I really don't think that the hunt ban has increased urban fox numbers somehow.

I don't think the ban was townies dictating to country folk either, there was plenty of hound hunt opposition in the country too.

[1Veryhungrycaterpillar]

A lot more people keep chickens in urban areas now bet the foxes love that, I think they need regular culling but fox hunting is vicious

[MrsLouisTheroux]

'Posh' land-owning folk turned what was a necessity for their farming staff (to keep fox numbers down) into a 'fun day out' many many years ago. The same goes with shooting birds out of the sky and fishing in the river on their land.
The 'posh folk' were playing at doing the hard work but were actually just showing off their wealth to their friends.

Fox numbers need to be kept down by farmers. All this rubbish about poor little fox families. They are vicious scavengers.

The 'sport' of fox hunting is outdated and not necessary. But ensuring fox numbers are not left to go out of control either in cities or in the countryside is.