Soft play incident - WIBU?!

[Sianilaa]

I took my three year old to a soft play place the other day. He was playing nicely most of the time but then I noticed he pushed a child out of the way to get on a slide first. I went straight over, took him aside and explained pushing/pushing in wasn't nice and he was to wait his turn. If he couldn't wait his turn and I saw him do it again, he would go in time out. He started kicking off because I'd removed him from the slide and was losing the plot - he ended up lashing out at me.

I picked him up, took him to a quiet bench away from the play area, against the back wall and explained hitting was unacceptable and he would do 3 mins time out. If he repeated it, we would go home. I stood about 1 metre away from him and turned my back while he did his time out. Close to him so he knew I was there but not giving him any attention. I was calm but firm - Supernanny would have been proud!

He was sobbing hard though, but stayed put. About a minute later a woman came rushing over to me, pushed past me and picked my son up and started cuddling/rocking him! She kept saying to him, "shhh, there there. It's not your fault you have such a cruel, abusive mummy. It's ok now."

I was so shocked, I just stood there with my mouth hanging open, catching flies for about a minute. When I got a grip, I told her to put him down and stop interfering when I was calmly disciplining my own child. This woman had a smaller child with her, plus a female partner. She put him down and went back to her partner loudly talking about how awful and cruel and damaging I was to my son. I lost my temper, and went over and said how dare she touch my son and interfere when I was trying to teach him hitting and pushing was wrong and that surely time out was better than screaming/swearing/smacking him?! I walked away shaking like a leaf.

Her partner came over a few minutes later and apologised, saying she had very strong views on discipline and ignorance and that she didn't agree with what I had done but that she shouldn't have done it or been so rude. At which point I said I wasn't ignorant in any way, and that they should be careful who they say these things to as next time they might get thumped by someone or ejected for inappropriately touching a child.

What would you have done?! Is time out cruel?! I didn't smack him or shout at him, but I did have to wrestle with him slightly to get him over to the time out spot I chose.

It's still making my blood boil just thinking about it.

I fail to see where Frenchgrey mentions smacking

1veryhungrycaterpillar I was livid! But too much of a scaredy cat to have it out with his parent. She was with mates. I was on my own, and with ds1s younger brother, and it was his birthday. The child who punched was 10, with piercings and spiky hair - like his mum! Staff told him to go and sit down and have some juice or ice cream to "calm down".

Oh well. My kids are too old for soft play now, youngest had his 8th birthday party yesterday!

So if the mother had removed the boy who punched your child and given him a time out, you still would've thought it was OTT, Quint?

"Next time, if you want to try prevent your child from losing the plot and hit you, try a gentle reminder to not push and shove other children out of the way without taking him aside, without kneeling down and making a scene. Try tell him he will need to take a break from the activity and lose his turn, if he tries to take another child's turn. It worked with me and my sons. Might work with you."

And what message does that give your child? He gets one push for nothing (worst that happens is a warning and you don't even lose your turn) and, if you are not seen...jackpot, you get to use the slide straight away and send your weaker rival away snivelling. And to the other child? No-one protects him from being pushed, it is the law of the jungle.

And in the adult world, calling someone a "violent thug" is a bit extreme. It is amazing how those who preach loudest against strong discipline against children are the quickest to metaphorically slap another adult in the face.

ROFL at a 2 year old saying 'for God sake Lady' Goldenbear Very funny.

Cory, my eldest is 6 and was/is very headstrong, self assured and a confident boy. He wasn't exactly what you would describe as 'easy' when he was 2/3. At his worse he bit a friend on the cheek- it was awful but I should've been watching him more and he never did it again. He is a kind 6 year old and knows right from wrong and is fine with just guidance.

I have absolutely no problem with alternatives to timeout etc but I object strongly to the OP being branded a thug for disciplining her child in her own non violent way.

"if my son pushed another kid out the way I would be proud of him-shows he is not afraid to push others to one side to get what he wants"

Roary, teachers won't stand for this I'm afraid. Your son will get into trouble a lot at school if you encourage this sort of behaviour. Other parents will complain about him and children won't like it. It would be kinder to him to teach him how to take turns and wait in a queue nicely like the other children.

this thread is a perfect illustration of why I hardly ever bother with Mn these days. The OP has posted openly and honestly and has been flamed by EITHER people who think she is abusive and cruel for administering a clear punishment (Quint) , OR that she is bringing up a wet pathetic child who is too weak to fight back (roary). You just can't bloody win on this talkboard can you?

OP - just don't take the bait.

"actually shallweshop, psychological studies have found a child understands concepts of "fair" and "unfair" at 12 months"

Some people never get it and, given your previous post, I suspect you are one of them. How can you be "proud" of unkindness?!

Sianila, I think there is a difference between a 3 year old pushing to get ahead on the slide, and a 10 year old punching another in the face so he gets a nose bleed. I dont think the two can compare. A full on punch in the face is assault. I also think that you will see the difference in 7 years time.

Yes thank you I can see the difference, don't need to wait another 7 years but I don't see why you've branded me a violent thug when surely you wanted the parent of the other boy to do something about his behaviour when you were in a similar situation?

Larry, no, not unless the other child has instantly been taken away, he will be there to hear the pusher being told off, and told he cant play anymore if he pushes. Do we always need to set physical boundaries?

HibiscusIsland, yes I thought it was very funny when I first heard it. I must admit I haven't corrected her on it because it is so funny when she says it - she is only 2 and 2 months and still very much a baby to me.

Quint,

There has to be a meaningful consequence, it does not have to be physical. A quiet warning is not a meaningful consequence, I am afraid, especially not to a bright child who can easily work out that they have one "free" option.

And, as you are calling the other OP a "violent thug" for giving her child a time out, I would like to ask you how you would enforce the sanction that you have threatened, should the need arise? If you have to remove your child from the activity that he/she is enjoying, you can rest assured you will need to use a degree of physical force. I just fail to believe that you have removed a child from a fun activity (before time and against their will) with mere calm words.

Irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with how the op chose to discipline her child the fact remains that the other woman was wholly out or order, if it had been a man it would have been considered molestation to grab and cuddle a complete strangers child.

The op is not a violent thug and quite frankly its no one else's business to comment on her method of dealing with her child.

Op, I don't think you're abusive and cruel and ad I said at the very start of this thread, I don't believe the other woman should have intervened. I just wanted to clarify that as I feel on MN you have to be in one camp or the other. I just don't think time out helps but that is because I've done it before when DS was nearly 3 and was a handful. I did it to please other people and it just escalated things and I decided it wasn't for me.

Yes, in an ideal world, the parent of the other child should have done something. But, that boy has managed to get to 10 years old and not learnt he should not punch. And he saw no consequence to punching my son. He got a treat with his mum veiled as "time out". What do you think his mother effectively could have done at that point? A bit late to start at 10. Mum clearly did not see the problem (Maybe it was Roary )

I see where you are trying to get. By NOT setting clear boundaries at 3, you will end up with a punching 10 year old. You might as well get a punching 10 year old despite setting clear boundaries for him, if you dont set the same boundaries for yourself.

I would not personally have handled the pushing situation like you did, that is just a difference in parenting tactics. My biggest issue with your op is losing your temper with the other adults. Yes, that woman was OTT and had no right to cuddle your child and interfere with your parenting, but you were also OTT in your reaction towards her. But that is just my opinion. I just dont see how you can calmly set "antiviolent" boundaries for your child, yet have no inhibition in aggression shown to others.

Larry, I disagree with setting physical boundaries as a first warning. I would happily carry a 3 year old out of the playground and take him home if the behaviour repeated after first warning. I did not have to do that very often though, they both knew they would go home if misbehaving or hurting other children.

Or maybe my sons were just very compliant that age!

Quint,

I think the OP reacted with EXTREME restraint. Another parent picked up her child in front of her without asking permission and then proceeded to insult her whilst holding her child. It is a shocking (and, at least technically) illegal way to behave.

How would you have reacted to that?

But the OP was right when she warned the interfering woman to be careful who she did that to in the future lest she get thumped because there are unfortunately a lot of people out there that would lash out physically if you criticised them or picked up their child

I think I assumed that the OP knows whether her child is one of those who will stop what he is doing to listen to a gentle verbal reminder or a child who needs to have his attention focused by being stopped in his tracks. I have known children of both types.

Neither of my children would have been frightened by being gently removed by me and briefly set to one side to work through a tantrum.. But they would have been absolutely terrified by a stranger rushing up and starting to cuddle them as described by the OP. In fact, that is one of the few situations I could imagine where I would not actually have told dd off for biting.

Not sure to be honest. I think I would have felt totally and utterly humiliated and gone home to look up parenting classes on the internet.

That's so unfair

But I didn't shout at the woman, or get in her face, threaten her.. I got angry but I didn't raise my voice to her. So what boundaries did I cross by challenging the fact she essentially took my child away from me?