Soft play incident - WIBU?!

[Sianilaa]

I took my three year old to a soft play place the other day. He was playing nicely most of the time but then I noticed he pushed a child out of the way to get on a slide first. I went straight over, took him aside and explained pushing/pushing in wasn't nice and he was to wait his turn. If he couldn't wait his turn and I saw him do it again, he would go in time out. He started kicking off because I'd removed him from the slide and was losing the plot - he ended up lashing out at me.

I picked him up, took him to a quiet bench away from the play area, against the back wall and explained hitting was unacceptable and he would do 3 mins time out. If he repeated it, we would go home. I stood about 1 metre away from him and turned my back while he did his time out. Close to him so he knew I was there but not giving him any attention. I was calm but firm - Supernanny would have been proud!

He was sobbing hard though, but stayed put. About a minute later a woman came rushing over to me, pushed past me and picked my son up and started cuddling/rocking him! She kept saying to him, "shhh, there there. It's not your fault you have such a cruel, abusive mummy. It's ok now."

I was so shocked, I just stood there with my mouth hanging open, catching flies for about a minute. When I got a grip, I told her to put him down and stop interfering when I was calmly disciplining my own child. This woman had a smaller child with her, plus a female partner. She put him down and went back to her partner loudly talking about how awful and cruel and damaging I was to my son. I lost my temper, and went over and said how dare she touch my son and interfere when I was trying to teach him hitting and pushing was wrong and that surely time out was better than screaming/swearing/smacking him?! I walked away shaking like a leaf.

Her partner came over a few minutes later and apologised, saying she had very strong views on discipline and ignorance and that she didn't agree with what I had done but that she shouldn't have done it or been so rude. At which point I said I wasn't ignorant in any way, and that they should be careful who they say these things to as next time they might get thumped by someone or ejected for inappropriately touching a child.

What would you have done?! Is time out cruel?! I didn't smack him or shout at him, but I did have to wrestle with him slightly to get him over to the time out spot I chose.

It's still making my blood boil just thinking about it.

It's impossible to know without being there and seeing both the op and the mad lesbian parent

what did the other lesbian mean when she said her partner had very strong views on "discipline and ignorance"? I get discipline, but what was the ignorance bit?

Really, Quint? A complete stranger snatches up your child to cuddle him (which would be scary to most children that age) and your response would be that you felt you had to look up parenting classes?

Me, I would have assumed that anyone who behaves like that around strange children is a bit of a loon.

Discipline is far tougher than the MN formula would suggest (and, believe me, I know, as the father of two small wilful boys with a relatively small age gap). The idea that one method is good and another bad is (IMO) just not borne out. Sometimes one method works, sometimes another and sometimes virtually none. Small children are quite random, so you just have to do your best according to the child's character and mood at the time. And sometimes you get it wrong as you are a human being.

I do believe, though, that you need to impose a framework of behaviour on a child and give consequences if they stray beyond it. The no discipline approach, although much lauded on MN, is derided in RL. Most people hate a certain type of entitled child who behaves however they like while their parents sit smugly by believing that their little darlings are merely expressing themselves.

""if my son pushed another kid out the way I would be proud of him-shows he is not afraid to push others to one side to get what he wants""

I totally agree. I push the old biddies out of the way in the queue at the corner shop so I can get served first all the time. Only yesterday I wrestled the last rosemary foccia out of some old blokes grasp in Waitrose.

I'm really proud of myself for behaving like this. FGS people why are you all so afraid? Just get what you want and do what you have to do to get it! Yeah!

But then you love a good old smack, Larry don't you?

Hully,

Not really, though sometimes it works better than a "time out" or other humiliation based punishment.

What I love are those days when my children are receptive to a nice chat and we all get along great. And those days do happen. I have tried smacking, time out, sitting still, removing toys, removing from activity etc etc. None of them are the panacea that some think that they are but all have their place. The more positive parenting I can manage, the more successful I have been. However, I am not going to beat myself up about the odd bad day. Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself and start the next day afresh.

goodness

I am genuinely pleased you have moderated your views larry

I think one of the cruellest things you can do to a child is to persevere with a parenting method (whichever parenting method) even when it is obvious that it does not work for that particular child.

Thinking of a friend I used to know who insisted on the same method of gentle verbal reminders for all her children: worked beautifully for two of them and not for the third. By the time she got to junior school people had stopped inviting her round partly because their own children complained of her agressive ways, partly because it was impossible to get rid of her at the end of a playdate. Her mum would stand weakly at the door asking her gently to come home and she wouldn't pay any attention until the host finally lost patience and stepped in. This could literally take hours.

Otoh I have seen cases where I have wondered if a more gentle method wouldn't have better results with that particular child. I have had to revamp my parenting substantially to suit ds, because he is basically a softer model: I found the minimum level to get dd's attention was often excessive in his case.

cory - one of the funniest things I have seen was the ds of my lovely hippy friend holding his friend's arm (who had just hit him) and kissing it ferociously saying through gritted teeth, "I have to love and forgive you I have to love and forgive you."

I happen to agree with Larry that all forms of discipline have their place. If a child having been told to stay away from the hot rings on a cooker and had it gently explained that they are hot and will hurt them still puts their hand up towards them then instincts kick in and most people would slap the child's hand away - this is not an unreasonable response IMO.

I have had to smack my godsons on a couple of occasions, their Mum and I discussed at length what she deems to be appropriate discipline and she uses smacking and expects me to follow this through. It is not something I enjoy but I do agree that it has a time and a place. They get a serious of warnings and then a final one that informs them that they will get a smacked bottom/hand if they continue.

It may not be everyone's choice but it is a valid choice for some parents and as a parent it is your choice to pick a method or methods of discipline that you agree with/find appropriate.

No one has the right to attack another parent for the simply fact that they do not choose to discipline their children in the same way.

Roary,

Are you for real with your "law of the jungle" approach to parenting? By the way it is "focaccia" and Viva was using the term ironically (look it up).

I suspect however that there is a certain sub-pontoon dwelling creature with a penchant for African stews in the vicinity...

Babyhmummy, wow you smack someone else's child?
Most normal people would refuse to join in with that sort of discipline.

Fannyfifer - why????? It is at times a needed and effective form of discipline.

My parents used smacking when required when I was a child and I am a perfectly well adjusted adult. I am not a violent person. I recall times when my grandparents smacked us as children if we deserved it. It was rare but we knew damn well that we were out of order when it happened

Not sure, Hully - I just assumed she meant that she thought I was ignorant?

I didn't smack my child btw!

for the record there is only so many times you can say to a child of 7 that they look with their eyes not hands in a shop before you are sick of being ignored, a smack on the hands after warning them that if it happens again that will be the consequence is not unreasonable IMO

cory - one of the funniest things I have seen was the ds of my lovely hippy friend holding his friend's arm (who had just hit him) and kissing it ferociously saying through gritted teeth, "I have to love and forgive you I have to love and forgive you.

This is brilliant :)

I think you dealt with the situation with your son well. I don't think you deserve for one minute the crap that's been directed at you on here while posters widly extrapolate from your posts to prove the point that you are an abusive parent.
The other woman was a loon.
I have a zero tolerance policy on bad behaviour at soft plays because I've seen how other kids are allowed to behave.

sianilaa I wasn't saying you had hun, was just agreeing with Larry that it is at times appropriate IMO

OP good for you disciplining your child. Your child will get invited to more play dates / be well liked ar school because he will know boundaries exist. You were right, other woman was total fucking fruit cake and you were right to be angry

Babyhmummy i cannot believe, otoh, that you smack your godson. Your GODson?! IMO godparents are there to guide, take out for treats, and most importantly be the REASONABLE one when the child's parents are at the end of their tether. You say you smack your dgs who's 7! SEVEN!! If at 7 he can't obey your verbal instructions he obviously has zero respect for you. Probably from years of being bullied by your smacking.

sorry but Roary are you for real? Proud if your son if he pushed a weaker child out of the way? I thought you and your dh had disabilities and mught have sime shred of empathy towards the weak and vulnerable.

and that is your opioinion Gin which you are entitled to but when he is in my sole care I will carry out discipline as I see fit in accordance with his mum's guidelines to maintain continuity of how they are treated. As for comments about 'bullied by your smacking' get a grip for Christ sake - i stated it had happened a couple of times so stop being so damn melodramatic

But, surely there's no hard and fast rule, how to parent every single child. Surely different circumstances call for different approaches?

I can't understand why this thread has turned into...well I don't really know what it is. Everyone seems to be suggesting that their way of discipline is in actual fact the only "right" way.
But, it's not, is it?

Thankfully my 2 eldest were going through the lovely 2-3 year old phase before supernanny et al were around.
We just did whatever the situation called for.

That wasn't the same with both of them, it wasn't the same every time one of them did something they were not supposed to.

I don't understand why, on a parenting website, there are people saying the way others bring up their children makes them feel sick. Or sad. Or whatever.

It may not be how you would do things. That doesn't mean it's totally wrong does it? Or do we all have to be exactly the same now?

To be honest, no one knows how the OP spoke to her child, whether she sounded aggressive to the other parent.

On the face of things, she is a parent who uses time out. That is it.

And, honestly, I do not think its appropriate for a stranger to grab hold of a child and call its mother cruel and abusive for using time out.
Time out. Not being slapped or called a fucking shit head. Or told to fuck off every time he went to speak to his mum.
Or being dragged by his hair.

Just time out.

why is my disability even relevant?