Soft play incident - WIBU?!

[Sianilaa]

I took my three year old to a soft play place the other day. He was playing nicely most of the time but then I noticed he pushed a child out of the way to get on a slide first. I went straight over, took him aside and explained pushing/pushing in wasn't nice and he was to wait his turn. If he couldn't wait his turn and I saw him do it again, he would go in time out. He started kicking off because I'd removed him from the slide and was losing the plot - he ended up lashing out at me.

I picked him up, took him to a quiet bench away from the play area, against the back wall and explained hitting was unacceptable and he would do 3 mins time out. If he repeated it, we would go home. I stood about 1 metre away from him and turned my back while he did his time out. Close to him so he knew I was there but not giving him any attention. I was calm but firm - Supernanny would have been proud!

He was sobbing hard though, but stayed put. About a minute later a woman came rushing over to me, pushed past me and picked my son up and started cuddling/rocking him! She kept saying to him, "shhh, there there. It's not your fault you have such a cruel, abusive mummy. It's ok now."

I was so shocked, I just stood there with my mouth hanging open, catching flies for about a minute. When I got a grip, I told her to put him down and stop interfering when I was calmly disciplining my own child. This woman had a smaller child with her, plus a female partner. She put him down and went back to her partner loudly talking about how awful and cruel and damaging I was to my son. I lost my temper, and went over and said how dare she touch my son and interfere when I was trying to teach him hitting and pushing was wrong and that surely time out was better than screaming/swearing/smacking him?! I walked away shaking like a leaf.

Her partner came over a few minutes later and apologised, saying she had very strong views on discipline and ignorance and that she didn't agree with what I had done but that she shouldn't have done it or been so rude. At which point I said I wasn't ignorant in any way, and that they should be careful who they say these things to as next time they might get thumped by someone or ejected for inappropriately touching a child.

What would you have done?! Is time out cruel?! I didn't smack him or shout at him, but I did have to wrestle with him slightly to get him over to the time out spot I chose.

It's still making my blood boil just thinking about it.

I can totally believe this happened. I used to work with a woman who was very vocal on everyone else's parenting techniques, and wouldn't hesitate to call someone abusive or cruel to their face if they used CC or time out.

The same woman consistently dressed her son in pink from birth as she didn't believe in gender stereotyping. I don't judge (in fact I was quite impressed by her commitment to her principles, and could understand where she was coming from, even though it wouldn't be my way of doing things) BUT other colleagues thought that decision was cruel (due to making him stand out, open to ridicule, risk of bullying etc.) I think everyone should assume everyone else is doing their best as a parent and let them get on with it even if they don't agree (unless actual violence or abuse is taking place - and I really don't think letting your child have a paddy while you stand a metre away letting them get it out of their system can really fall into that category tbh...)

My DS1 was perfectly able to backchat at 2yo. Sarcastically too!

As for the OP, I have had something similar happen at sift play, with my DD when she was 6yo.

She had pushed her brother over, been warned that she would go in time out if it happened again, she did it again, so I put her in time out.

Which for my DD involved holding her tightly on my lap, facing away from me, as if she wasn't held during time out, she used to break anything she could get her hands on, and meltdown quite spectacularly.

So she would be thrashing against me for ages until she calmed down and had done her time.

On one occasion, a woman came up to me and told me that I was "Overly physical, bordering on abusive to my DD, and I should have my children taken away".

What she had no knowledge if was the fact that my DD has SN's, and this was the ONLY way to get her to calm down enough to explain that what she was doing was unacceptable. And that I had been trained on how to safely hold DD during a meltdown.

I'm afraid to say, the woman got a gobfull from me, in a not very polite manner, that told her to go away and mind her own business.

So I can fully believe that there are oddbods out there that will do the things stated in the OP, because some people do seem to believe that they can interfere like this and undermine a parent that is disciplining their own DC!

Ok SirBoobALot, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Sock, that is awful. Do you still have contact with your Mother? She sounds, erm, a bit not very nice to spend time with it have DC's around...

Yes I do couthy. She's changed quite a lot in all fairness to her she was a great parent to my brothers and sisters it was just me she disliked.

I keep the contact minimal easy due to distance and she has never been left alone not even for a few minutes with any of my children ( nor my brothers) but her lack of power over me is made easy because I own the house she lives in and the rest of my family inc her husband have taken the time to call her on her behaviour every time she forgets how bad she was.

2- oh come off it? So you had an impertinent 2 year old. How sad to view your 2 year old like that. I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and I can't begin to see how she would be able to demonstrate insolence- just a ridiculous notion!

2- oh come off it? So you had an impertinent 2 year old. How sad to view your 2 year old like that. I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and I can't begin to see how she would be able to demonstrate insolence- just a ridiculous notion!

In your opinion! I happen to agree with Couthymow. That's our opinion. I have a 31 year-old and a 25 year-old. And grandchildren. Do I win?

To those who think the OP was threatening the strange lady who cuddled her son, RTFT!! She was pointing out that if she continues to interfere with other people's discipline of their children, some might not be quite so restrained in their reactions! Perfectly valid.

The OP did what she did. She didn't scream or rant at her child. She didn't hit. She took him away from his bad behaviour and gave him time to calm down. He is old enough to know that kind of behaviour is unacceptable and I think she handled it as well as anyone can in a public place.

We are none of us perfect, although you might not believe that after reading some of the posts on here.

I consider back chatting questioning what I have said to them or what I have asked them to do in children of that age. That is quite possible from an articulate intellegent 2 or 3 YO so maybe we are talking about different things here or different thoughts of what back chatting is.

I know many 2 or 3 YOs that are quite rude to their parents, often picked up from older siblings or older children they know, the parents always use the excuse they are too young etc and do not tell them off for it, this then can lead to rude 6 or 7 YOs (or older) who should and do know better.

They may have picked it up from other children but that does not mean they shouldn't be pulled up on it otherwise they will think its normal and ok.

MrsMelons: The OPs child is nearly 4 but thats irrelevant as a 3 YO should know what they are doing, mine both did, her DS hit her and was crying as he had been told off not because he needed comforting FFS - do you suggest that the OP cuddled him instead and said don't worry sweetheart, its ok to hit mummy or anyone else you feel like as you won't be punished?!

Quite. I have worked with a number of children whose parents operated on those principles. Most of them were entitled nightmares who took some while to realise the world didn't revolve around them and that bad behaviour and tantrums generated consequences.

My friend does this all the time and still at 7 YO her DD is very badly behaved, rude, calls her mum a bitch and so on. My friend can't bring herself to carry through punishments as she feels bad.

There is a time when you need to stop making excuses and realise that children do know what they are doing from a young age and they are never too young to gently learn right from wrong, my 10 MO DN has a habit of grabbing hair and faces, he is told no firmly and his hand is taken away, he will eventually learn it is not ok to hurt others. No one shouts at him but he does understand some things already, as long as it is age appropriate then I believe its important to start this sort of teaching early.

I get told not to spoil her fun and she tells me she doesn't want to be my friend any more. Oh and "if I want to do xyz, then I will!" she's a right handful but we deal with it as best we can and usually she's a lovely little girl.

Backchat or not in your expert opinion, goldenbear?

Ps I know the friend thing is common and normal in small chidden and I always just say, "oh that's a shame, because I love you". Then it blows over. But with the other things I say "please don't talk to mummy like that", and she says "don't you talk to me like that!" no idea where the breathtaking rudeness is coming from but in those instances there's nothing to do but remove her for some time to calm down, IMO.

OP it sounds to me like you dealt with things well. I would have been gobsmacked too in that situation. I am not sure I would have had the guts to confront the woman as you did though. Well done you! I just hope it hasn't left your DS too confused!

I had two of those, Blackholes... I was told it's usually the bright ones that do it, though it's scant comfort at the time

I think you did the right thing. I would have removed my child and given time out too.

I think it's a bit bonkers that some posters are saying that children don't understand at that age. My three certainly did.

I have a 2 and a half year old at the moment and I'm pleased to say she knows that hitting someone or pushing them out of the way is not the right way to behave (that doesn't mean she doesn't do it sometimes).

Don't sweat it. You were right, she sounds unhinged.

Sianilaa you have the right to discipline your child as you see fit without anyone else interfering. No one has the right to intervene and undermine you whilst carrying out that discipline irrespective of whether they are a partner, family member or complete random!

Personally I think you dealt with it very well, my DSS is nearly 10 and at the play park recently he went down the slide whilst a 4/5 yr old was still sat on it and shoved him clean off and on to the floor, I called my DSS over to me and put him immediately in a time out for his behaviour (there had been various other incidents over the past few days that had exhausted his warnings) and at nearly 10 he more than knows better.

I am not sure i could have dealt with the the busy body in quite such a calm manner, had someone done that to me they may well have got a few choice words and told categorically to go and boil their head in a pan!

Ha! Some people seriously think 3 year olds are not capable of backchat?

A conversation I had with ds2 this morning:
'Ds, go get your shoes please, we're leaving in 1 minute'
No response (that I hear...he had his back to me).
'Ds, go get your shoes please! Come on, we're leaving now' (louder but not shouting).
The response I got? 'OK! I SAID that I would do it now! If you could JUST give me a minute!' -whilst rolling his eyes.

If that wouldn't be classed as an 'impertinent retort' then I don't know what would! He was 3 in April, so the younger side of 3, and not particularly advanced.

I wonder if those that say a backchatting 3 year old is impossible are those whose 3 year olds do not have stroppy older brothers/sisters to learn from?!

Really interesting discussion. I am with SirBoob and couldn't bear to see a young child crying and not being comforted.

If you're at soft play, it's for their benefit, non? So why make it an ordeal?

Plus that article linked above was really interesting and for me rang true.

I was left to cry, tantrum etc in 'time out' when I was tiny and I remember the terror and fear and sense of being alone, a real physical sense of 'mummy won't cuddle me' 'she doesn't like me anymore' and it made no sense to me why mummy was sometimes nice and sometimes got angry with me when I was most upset.

It has genuinely affected my relationships, particularly my early romantic ones in my teens where conflict arose I couldn't have any sense that it was ok to feel upset, and would frequently run off crying and the like.

Not saying this would always be a result of 'time out' type parenting but I won't do it, the single most important thing to me is that my kids always feel loved and that I am there for them.

I'm a fan of natural consequences as opposed to punishments, which are always so far removed from the actual event.

Ime children who do not learn the links between behaviour and rejection within the context of a loving relationship turn into adults who don't understand that if you behave badly or abusively towards people then those people will not want you in there life.

Ones who expect lines to be drawn very quickly under their own shocking behaviour but are perfectly happy to throw back minor slights from others for years.

I genuinely don't understand how it is possible to teach young children right from wrong without a few tears along the way. If the child hits someone, intentionally, how would you teach them not to?

So SirBoobALot, if you happen to have one of those 3yos who both cry and hit you simultaneously when they fly into a temper, how do you comfort them?

Ime there can be different types of crying: sad crying that wants comforting and furious crying because you are being prevented from sinking your teeth into your parent's soft parts.

I was never one for ignoring children. But when dd went into one of her tantrums I found murmuring soothing words had zero effect on her: she was angry, not sad. She needed to work through her tantrum and calm herself down. As for cuddling- well, unless restrained, she would seize the opportunity to bite. And then bite again.

I might add that I was the same as a child, and that dd and I have both grown up into peaceful and non-aggressive older people.

Children are different. What worked for us was instant removal.

I can't believe some of the emotive language being used on here! 'Ordeal' 'wrestled to the bench' and 'left to cry with no comfort' GAFG. If a child's pushes another and then hits you for remonstrating the a timeout is a perfectly reasonable response. Aren't my DCs going to be emotionally scarred about being battered by kids whose mothers do nothing about it

Another point to consider is that near 4-yos are quite capable of picking up on the behaviour of other children and parents around them. How would you feel if you had just been pushed over or had your toy snatched and then saw the offender's mum cooing over him and comforting him? Confusing, don't you think?

To be perfectly honest with you, had I witnessed you, I would have held exactly the same opinion as that woman. I would not have said anything though, as I would not interfere with how other people parent. She was OTT. But you were light-years ahead OTT. She should have known better than to interfere with a "power parent" such as yourself. She should know, if you challenge a thug, you will get a violent or aggressive response.

You came down like a ton of bricks on a 3 year old pushing ahead on the slides, and it escalated from there. Personally, I prefer the method of gentle explaining, and if that does not work, threats to remove ourselves from the play as a last warning. And if the behaviour continues, follow it through and leave.