School are unable to tell yr5/6 children that homosexuality is normal.

[EleanorHandbasket]

It's in their policies. We've just been to a meeting about what they are going to be learning over the next yr with regard to health and sex education.

In the handout it says that 'any questions raised by pupils that require an answer that exceeds the agreed content of this policy, eg homosexual sex, will not be answered in an open class discussion. the matter will be referred to the individual parents for further guidance on their child's emotional needs.'

My friend asked what that meant for a child asking 'is homosexuality normal?'. the teacher replied that they woudl be unable to answer that question because they can't be seen to be making a judgement either way.

I don't really understand why they can't say,'yes it's normal'. End of discussion.

The teacher said that's because some parents may have issues around it and that they have to cater to all the parents wishes.

Well, I think that by refusing to state that it's normal, as in some people are homosexual and it is totally a) legal, b) not a choice, and c) likely to be the reality for many of the children being taught (whether that's personally or to do with friends and family), that they are in fact making a judgement.

My other friend (who is a teacher) thinks that actually they are doing teh best they can within the confines of the policy and parents' wishes.

I'm just really uncomfortable with it. AIBU? And is there any point talking to the governers?

I would remind the school that they have to provide an education that is broadly based, balanced and meets the needs the needs of all pupils. By not answering questions in regards to homosexuality is none of this.

PHSE is supposed to deal with the real life issues effecting young people, their families and those around them. It is also about personal develpoment. If the school are unwilling to discuss homosexuality, then how can they say that they are helping the pupils develop?

And as for the crap about making judgements either way.. Then they cannot teach about making babies.

But unfortunatly, schools can make their own policies. But if you as a parent object, then you can query how they made the policy because you should have been consulted.

holly the teacher said she would not answer whether homosexuality was normal - ie we are talking about a blanket policy.

Well my boys who are 5 and 7 already know its normal as they have 2 aunties who are gay.

If they want to ask questions I would answer them honestly in an age appropriate way, but they don't ask questions because to them it is normal anyway as that's what they've always known.

Sadl I'm not surprised by this bigoted view, but I think it's disgusting.

'is it normal for a black and a white person to be married?'

Again this is a question that religion could be used as an excuse for bigotry, in that some would argue that people should not marry outside their religion.

They could answer that homosexuality is relatively common but it is atypical - the vast majority are heterosexual. Can't go wrong if they just deal in facts.

[hmmm]

Yes. DW and I are NOT NORMAL.

And my friend is not normal because she likes dressing up as an elf, and my sister is not normal because she likes her dogs to wear clothes, and my 4 year old nephew is not normal because he wants to be a pink felt tip when he grows up....

I went to a Christian debate on homosexuality last year. The best part of it was this woman who stood up & said that marriage in the C of E was between a man & a woman, & we should all follow the example of Henry the Eighth. Was he normal?

[sigh]

And people say the battle for equality is over.

Statutory guidance for maintained schools is http://www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00214676/sex-and-relationships-education-guidance here

It says teachers should answer questions about sexuality sensitively and honestly and that there should be "no direct promotion of sexual orientation".

This is why I don't trust the school system with my children's sex education. Until we get to the level of openness and expertise that they have in places like the Netherlands and Sweden, I'll do it myself.

My DDs know about homosexuality and that it is as normal as heterosexuality, asexuality and bisexuality. One of their cousins is bisexual. Anyone who tries to tell them that girls can't marry girls and boys can't marry boys will get short shrift from them.

TBH, I know we are talking primary - and to me that is still an age where things are better discussed by parents.

I have really quite bizarre convos with DS3.

The other night he stuck his head round the bannisters and said "would you mind if I was gay?" so I said, "of course not, is there something you want to talk about?" he said "no, I just wondered", so I said "that's an odd thing to wonder"... so he said "would you mind if I was Michael Jackson?"... to whit I said (tongue in cheek) "well, yes, I would mind if you were a 50 yo dead pop star!!!"... "Ok" he said and wandered back off into his own world and piped up with "would you mind if I danced like Michael Jackson?"

No darling, what ever makes you happy !

can you imagine how that conversation might have gone, if in front of a peer group?

I doubt any child would ask leading questions in an open forum

YANBU

My eldest DD watched the video last year

Our teacher described it as 'mutually respectful and consenting relationship' (I think, something like that anyway) whether that be between and man and a woman, a woman and a woman or a man and a man.

The word 'normal' was never used in the discussions

here

I would complain to the governors. The teacher's responses to the questions the parents raised in the meeting were completely inadequate.

Empress :o at the pink felt tip!

What is normal anyway, normal is boring and overrated!

That's daft, Holly. At primary age, many girls are already starting their periods - they are entering puberty. And they are having sex education - so they have to deal with issues like homosexuality as well.

I'd complain to the governors as well.

And, assuming it's run by the local council, if I didn't like the answer I'd take it to them too.

If parents were consulted to begin with, there is no point in telling their children to talk to their parents. They don't want it discussed and so there will be no discussion.. It will be a little secret. Something to be never discussed. Something to be ashamed about.... I actually never realised we were stuck in the past.

How niave the school are being. Of course children are going to want to discuss homosexuality. It is all over the media at the moment..Are they also going to stop the children from accessing newsround?

Plus what happens when same sex marriage goes through?

Come to think about it, what about civil partnerships?

holly, if that conversation never happens in front of a peer group, will it go any better?

I know people who had good experiences of coming out at a young age and people who had bad experiences, but I don't think you can control it by making it a taboo subject at school - it'll just get speculated on in the playground and the conclusion will be, we're not allowed to discuss this because it's naughty/disgusting/wrong.

That doesn't surprise me. DH (science teacher) isn't allowed to teach evolution as fact. It's just a theory. And it does genuinely upset some students for whom the concept of evolution goes completely against what they believe or have been taught by their parents.

I can understand how the teachers don't want to get embroiled in being seen to offer an opinion on homosexuality. That's not to say it's right not be able to do so, but they probably think they're well out of it tbh. A homophobic bigot isn't going to thank a primary school teacher for telling Johnny that it's ok for two men to love each other.

Our c of e school refuses to acknowledge homosexuality or masturbation. It is bonkers. However, my dc have known since they were toddlers that some men lie ladies. Some ladies love men, some men love men and some ladies love ladies. Not hard to explain to toddlers, let alone 10 year olds.

The day gay marriage bill went through my friend told her kids - as she was happy this had happened - and her 5 year old proclaimed that as boys can marry boys now he has decided to marry my ds. I think it's lovely

Anyhow back to the point - yanbu however - your Dc will learn more from you and your attitudes than they ever will at school.

YANBU. I work in a school with a high number of religious parents (of all faiths but predominantly Christian and Muslim, and a few are fairly fundamentalist). Our sex-ed policy is that no one-type of relationship will be favoured over another. In practise that means that we will include gay relationships as normal alongside any other type of relationship or family structure.

I will always say that it is normal to be gay. It is my duty to do so as some of my pupils will be gay themselves (even if they don't realise yet), and others will have people who they love that are gay (including parents). I will not allow them to feel that they are abnormal for something they have no control over.

In 7 years I have never had a parent complain. There have been a few in other classes over the years who have. Our school line is that homosexuality is normal and we will not tolerate homophobia. If parents seriously disagree with this then they are welcome to find another school that meets their values.

Quite frankly op your school should be ashamed of the stance they are taking. It isn't acceptable in 2013.

Well my DCs C ofE school would (and does) say homosexuality is normal. They have coped with homosexual parents, and transgender children.
For questions they normally have a post box, to both give the teachers a chance to give a considered response, and to give the children a chance to ask questions anonymously.

But evolution is a theory.

That's not the same situation.