School are unable to tell yr5/6 children that homosexuality is normal.

[EleanorHandbasket]

It's in their policies. We've just been to a meeting about what they are going to be learning over the next yr with regard to health and sex education.

In the handout it says that 'any questions raised by pupils that require an answer that exceeds the agreed content of this policy, eg homosexual sex, will not be answered in an open class discussion. the matter will be referred to the individual parents for further guidance on their child's emotional needs.'

My friend asked what that meant for a child asking 'is homosexuality normal?'. the teacher replied that they woudl be unable to answer that question because they can't be seen to be making a judgement either way.

I don't really understand why they can't say,'yes it's normal'. End of discussion.

The teacher said that's because some parents may have issues around it and that they have to cater to all the parents wishes.

Well, I think that by refusing to state that it's normal, as in some people are homosexual and it is totally a) legal, b) not a choice, and c) likely to be the reality for many of the children being taught (whether that's personally or to do with friends and family), that they are in fact making a judgement.

My other friend (who is a teacher) thinks that actually they are doing teh best they can within the confines of the policy and parents' wishes.

I'm just really uncomfortable with it. AIBU? And is there any point talking to the governers?

This makes me really angry but sadly is the case in my local area too - my friend is a P6 teacher and in sex ed is only allowed to discuss sex as a means of reproduction and this means they can't talk about homosexuality, even if asked. It makes me sick to think that at this impressionable age young people who may be struggling with their sexuality will feel they can't discuss their feelings openly with their peers for fear they'll have the piss taken out of them.

I don't think its up to a school to teach any of this, tbh. Sex is inevitably a private subject, and cannot be made to fit a "schools policy". If you have views about sex, as a parent it is surely your responsibility to impart them to your children, not the State.

I think the problem that faces them is that if a child of very religious parents comes home and says 'school said homosexuality is normal', the school would have said parents coming down on them like a ton of bricks. It would bring up the whole 'freedom of religion' thing.

This is a neutral post btw, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing!!

Schools teach sex and relationships together. Relationships are not a private subject.

Sex isn't a private subject when it comes to consent.

I think the problem is that they don't want parents withdrawing children, so they make the topics as narrow as possible so that children aren't withdrawn.

We have freedom of religion. Parents are free to full their children's heads with all sorts if nonsense. It doesn't mean schools have to collude in this.

Yes there are many ideas about homosexuality but not all ideas are equal and not all ideas should be given credence by our education system.

Sorry - to be clear, ideas that homosexuality is somehow abnormal should not be given credence by the school.

It's not as though schools would be brainwashing children into being gay, which isn't possible anyway.

Some people are still racist these days, but that doesn't mean that children of ethinic minorities can't go to school.

ARealDame Whether or not you think it's something for the schools to teach, they DO teach sex education, it's part of the national curriculum, so it really does have to be taught in an equal and balanced way.

We had this, some girls were calling dd1 a lesbian as a derogatory insult. When I spoke to the school they said they couldn't discuss it with them as homosexuality isn't on the curriculum and the parents might not want them to know. Wtf?! They are using it as an insult, it needs addressing!

But it IS normal. I was telling dd in the bath about someone I work with who is gay. She asked if he has a girlfriend I said no, he doesn't, he's gay. After more talk about him as a person, she just came up with the conclusion that he's nice. Why does it have to be such a protected subject?

I really hope that by the time my children are that age this is a non issue - given that they have gay parents. I don't see what's wrong with saying yes it's normal for some people.

Stickingattwo in most schools (even C of E) it is a non-issue.
That is what makes the OP shocking.

There are some things that parents could take responsibility for teaching their children, all types of sexuality being normal being a good example of that.

It's odd that the school policy actually dicatates they can't answer such questions but I'm sure that will change quite quickly.

Alisvolatpropiis the problem is that too many parents don't teach their children this stuff. And it's all very well to say that it isn't up to schools to counter bigotry in the home, but we can't not try to make this a more tolerant world for everyone.

And I just looked up your nn - great!

pointythings thanks

You do have a point. It's a difficult one for teachers because they teach the science bit rather than relationship bit,well usually. Though I do remember sexuality being discussed when I was in high school when I was 12/13 in PSE.

Of course,anything that helps makes the broader cross section of society more tolerant is a good thing.

I often think "in 10/20 years time sexuality really won't be an issue to anybody" but I think that is me being rather too optimistic. One can hope though.

Response received from the head. I feel like they're really missing the point by referring back to 'the law', which is very much open to interpretation

'Dear Mrs Lulabellarama,

I have now had the opportunity to speak with Mrs W about your
concerns earlier than expected, and have attached her thoughts below about
the meeting.
Hopefully it helps clarify matters, but should you have any further concerns
please do not hesitate to contact Mrs in the first instance, or
myself subsequently if I can help.
Both Mrs W and myself feel the promotion of 'equal opportunities' is
paramount within the framework of the law, and the governors would expect
lessons to reflect that.

Best Wishes,

Mr G

Hi >
Mrs Lulabellarama asked if we would be discussing same sex
relationships. She made no mention of the other points of
equality she mentioned below after I discussed it. I told
her that the DVD briefly mentioned a same sex
relationship as part of the large group of different
relationships. We would state the facts that same sex
relationships exist along with the other types of
relationships/family groups however we don't give any
personal judgements on any form of relationships. I said
that if a child asked any specific questions which we could
not answer in relation to the law then we would pass that
back to the parents as we can't promote any kind of
relationships. I said we are aware that with different
parents views and the age and the maturity of the children
they might want to decide what they wish to discuss with the
children relating to this matter.

Mrs W'

What do you think?

So the individual view of the teacher is irrelevant if that is the plicy of the school.

kim That is my fear, that what they consider to be inclusive is actually really not. I dread to think of confused young children being potentially further isolated.

My children knew from the age of 6 that homosexual relationships were normal. I explained that you might not meet as many gay couples, but it was still normal. DS1 asked if he could marry his best friend. I replied absolutely if he still had special feelings when he was a grown up.

Homophobic slang ('you are sooooo gay') was creeping into the playground, but our head quickly pointed out that it was unacceptable.

Bastards.

(On a tangent, but evolution is not a theory meaning it might be true or it might not be true.

It is a theory because all the facts we have point to evolution and not one single fact can be cited to disprove the theory yet. So it is the best explanation we have.

Creationism is not a theory as there is no factual evidence to back it up. So saying "we are teaching both" does not make sense as one is a scientific theory based on facts and the other is a folkloric story with no factual basis. Ie no way you can compare them.)

As you were.

My name is Shaun Dellenty and I am the Deputy Headteacher of Alfred Salter Primary School in London- I am also openly gay with my whole school community. In 2010-faced with endemic homophobic bullying in our local schools and community I developed a training programme for schools called 'Inclusion For All' which significantly reduced incidents of homophobic bullying and language. My school is now the only primary school in the UK that trains other teachers, local education authorities, teacher training establishments, police and anti-bullying organisations to prevent homophobic bullying and language. You can find more about my work at www.inclusionforall.co.uk and at www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/shaun-dellenty/
There is also a dedicated Facebook page atwww.facebook.com/shaundellentyIFA?ref=hl
I am also on Twitter @ShaunDellenty

The bottom line is personal beliefs should not come into it, homophobic bullying effects attendance, attainment and achievement, mental health and physical health. Children are driven out of education, beaten up, killed or kill themselves due to homophobia in schools; teachers have a duty to protect all children in their care and not just the children who fit in with their own belief system. The Equality Act 20120 and the current OFSTED framework set clear expectations for schools around preventing homophobia. Any teacher that tells children that being gay is not normal is being homophobic and absolutely should be reported. A teacher in London recently lost his job for doing the very same thing.

I hope this is useful to you, there is actually lots of great work going on out there, I work with secular and faith schools so this work really can be done. You might like to watch some videos I have made relevant to this work:

and here are a couple of articles:
www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/nov/14/homophobic-bullying-schools

www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2013/feb/05/homophobic-bullying-children-gay-primary-schools

Many Thanks- my email is [email protected]
Best Wishes