School are unable to tell yr5/6 children that homosexuality is normal.

[EleanorHandbasket]

It's in their policies. We've just been to a meeting about what they are going to be learning over the next yr with regard to health and sex education.

In the handout it says that 'any questions raised by pupils that require an answer that exceeds the agreed content of this policy, eg homosexual sex, will not be answered in an open class discussion. the matter will be referred to the individual parents for further guidance on their child's emotional needs.'

My friend asked what that meant for a child asking 'is homosexuality normal?'. the teacher replied that they woudl be unable to answer that question because they can't be seen to be making a judgement either way.

I don't really understand why they can't say,'yes it's normal'. End of discussion.

The teacher said that's because some parents may have issues around it and that they have to cater to all the parents wishes.

Well, I think that by refusing to state that it's normal, as in some people are homosexual and it is totally a) legal, b) not a choice, and c) likely to be the reality for many of the children being taught (whether that's personally or to do with friends and family), that they are in fact making a judgement.

My other friend (who is a teacher) thinks that actually they are doing teh best they can within the confines of the policy and parents' wishes.

I'm just really uncomfortable with it. AIBU? And is there any point talking to the governers?

Oh, and I posted before a few months ago when I first read the policy, but held fire until I'd been to the meeting and heard exactly how they implement it.

I'd love to know if this is a normal stance for primary schools. And if not, what we should do about it, if anything.

What about non-bigoted parent's wishes?

Is it a faith school?

Is it a religious school?

Surely the whole sex ed topic could be skirted in that way, smacks of phobia.

Nope, not a faith school, just a normal state primary.

I think they are doing the best they can. If they refer it to the parents, then THEY can tell the child what they believe. All sorted, surely?

Oh, that is horrible.

How is that possibly not going to stigmatize the poor child who's been made to feel his or her question is too rude to be answered in public? Because that is how it will probably feel.

And isn't part of what schools are for, making sure that children whose parents are homophobic bigots get taught what the law of this country says?

The teacher said that in the video they watch there are lots of different couples shown, a married couple, cohabitating, young old and a same-sex couple, 'but don't worry, it's a thirty second snapshot and we don't dwell on it'.

I agree with you but I'd say taking it further would depend on the make-up of your school. One of the primary schools we use has a very high number of religious pupils, persuading them to be more positive about homosexuality has gone nowhere as they totally have the support of the parents.

My understanding is that your teacher friend is right.

You could use it as a good opportunity to teach your child how ridiculous some people's views ar ein this day and age but I know that's not what your getting at.

Sooo ... the video is going to teach children, 'you may see a gay couple but We Don't Talk About That'?

Right then. That's not weird.

What happens if some of the pupils or future pupils have gay parents?

There must be an equality and diversity worker at the local council who would sort this out if you rang them.

I don't really understand why they can't say,'yes it's normal'. End of discussion.

Well it's not the only ""normal"" is it? >flame me< Its one of a range of normal things, homosexual, bisexual, hetrosexual, even asexual - all are normal but to give credence to one sexual aspect puts it above others.

With regard to health and sex education - someone come and correct me if I have the wording wrong - the phrase is "mutually respectful and loving relationships" and leaving the actual sexual bias out of it.

I'm quite happy that my child is taught that people should love and respect each other - and no gender bias involved?

FWIW you teacher is prevaricating and using other parents as an excuse - the curriculum cannot be seen to be advocating one type of relationship over another - taking homosexuality out of it - if the curriculum advocated monogamy - then you would have other faiths complaining.

lasttango but how are they not making a judgement by refusing to answer the question.

The question isn't, is homosexuality evil? Or, is homosexuality brilliant?

It's, is homosexuality normal? Which is pretty neutral imo.

So, an 11 year old boy, struggling with his emotions around sexuality, asks his teacher in front of the class if gay feelings are normal.

And he's told (in front of his peers) that the teacher can't answer that but they;ll schedule a meeting with his parents to discuss it.

I mean, wtf?

Holly, no of course it's not the only normal. But you can bet that they;ll answer lots of questions about fancying girls and all those emotions and hormonal feelings.

Why can't they say, yes, having feelings about boys, girls, both or none is all perfectly normal and nothing to worry about?

they shouldn't be teaching five and six year olds about sex at all. the whole thing is completely mad. reading, writing, and sums is what they should be concentrating on at that age. honestly, I think the world has gone raving mad. sex lessons for five year olds. good grief.

But holly, unless I'm misunderstanding, a child who asked 'is it ok not to get married' would be told 'yes dear, of course', and a child who asked 'is it ok for a white woman to have sex with a black man' would be told 'yes, of course', and a child who asked 'can a man have sex with a man', the teacher would have to say 'we don't discuss that, ask your mum'.

That wouldn't be treating it as the same as any other relationship IMO.

Can they not answer something sort of cryptic like 'for some people'?

louise - year 5/6. Age 10/11.

Louise, it's YEAR 5 and 6. 10 and 11 year olds.

Why should they cater to some parents' wishes at the expense of other people's, including other parents', in this matter? Wouldn't it be great if children heard bigotry only at home, if at all. Schools don't avoid the idiotic idea that black people are inferior to white people, why would they behave as if attitudes to sexuality can be constrained by some parents?

Wow I had no idea homophobia was still in our school'sssurely it should be 'it's normal' and you can ignore the prejudice attitudes of the parents? Clearly not!

Yanbu. Vile. Do they know section 28 was repealed years ago?

It's year 5/6

homosexuality is normal

Some of their teachers will be gay. Some of their relatives will be gay. At our school some of the parents are gay.

Why tiptoe round the subject? Why pander to prejudice?

Yanbu. Vile. Do they know section 28 was repealed years ago?

Whoops, sorry for double-post.
I would raise it with the governors, as an equality and diversity issue. Some children will already be dealing with their own gayness, others will have gay parents or other relatives etc. It's cruel.

I'd like there to be change, but it would have to come at a national level in order to give schools the authority they needed.
You'd have parents withdrawing children all over the place, parents quizzing their children endlessly to check whether any hint of approval for gayness had crept into any lesson, parents saying that their religious beliefs were being threatened by the very mention of the idea that homosexuality is a viable and reasonable life choice.
It would have to be a very brave and pioneering school that chose that path alone.