To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, no as long as you don't expect anything of your child that you know they can't give.

What did you do to change yourself into a 'pushy' mum?

I think there's a huge difference between encouraging your child to do the best they can do, and being a pushy mum.

If my child wants to make it to an over-hyped university she'll do it on her own. I'll leave it to her to decide. My priorities are more about her having an enjoyable childhood.

It depends what you want for your DC's future.

I'd rather mine didn't go to Oxbridge, unless it was what would make them especially happy. I'm interested in what makes them happy, not what they 'achieve'.

I'd argue that so far my DC have pretty successful, although that word in itself means different things to different people, without me being pushy.

YABU

Maybe they (your dcs) dont want to 'achieve'. What about happiness??

Not everyone wants a glittering career and loads of material stuff. How about seeing what the child wants and taking it from there.

It depends - there is encouraging your child to do well and put in effort and there is pushing children too hard, down paths they don't want and putting them under unneeded pressure

There's a middle ground.

Not doing anything to support and encourage your children to do their best is not good.

Being on their back and pushing them every hour of the day and piling on the pressure until they crack is also not good!

Children need support and encouragement but they also need time to relax and be children and they should never ever EVER feel that parental love or approval is tied up in academic achievement and should never feel that they aren't good enough.

Parents should also never forget that they've GOT their life and the life they are guiding now is not their own. They are just a caretaker.

So I would say that as long as you've struck the right balance, yanbu.

Well, I am probably going to be flamed, but I had transferred DS to a private school, got tutors and helped him at home. I spend a lot of time teaching younger ones, they are also studying an instrument from the age of 3 with a private tutor, but I am taking music lessons myself in order to help them at home. I am also planning to study French this year in order to be able to check their homework.

Nothing wrong with encouraging and supporting. I wouldn't go as far as you have personally.

I think the problem comes when parents have a set idea of the one path that will be acceptable (say, for arguments sake, Oxbridge) and that doesn't match up to hat will make their child happy.

Are your DC happy? Do they enjoy what they do? If so then that's fine.

Can't say I've noticed anyone on MN who thinks this is the 20th Century though. A lot of very intelligent, thoroughly modern gals here OP

But to me that doesn't even make sense to me, if you're paying for a private school or your DS is attending this brilliant grammar, why will you having mediocre music skills or knowing a bit of french do him massive favours.

Shouldn't his excellent schools be providing this?

So is your intention that he becomes some sort of concert musician or that he just does it be 'accomplished'?

Children should do things which add to their health or happiness not their CV.

based on your last post.. yes, you are pushy and being unreasonable

they are children, not performing seals

If pushy means that you encourage and support your child to reach their potential, ensure homework is done, help when their is a problem - then no, nothing wrong with it.

If pushy means you take over your child's life, decide that academic achievement is paramount at all times, control who they see, what they do down to the nth degree, don't take their feelings, strengths, weaknesses, interests or happiness into account in your drive to turn them into the ideal of themselves you hold in your head - then yes, that is a problem.

Some children flourish with their parents support, others despite it.

Also, there are other universities than Oxford and Cambridge. Many people lead happy, successful lives without having attended them. A friend of mine who attended had the second type of pushy parent described above. She was accepted at Oxford (rare from our school), graduated with a 2.1, didn't ever particularly enjoy her time there, then had a breakdown cause she never 'made it' in the Law which was her father's chosen career.

I think encouraging a child to develop good study habits and exam techniques is useful and will stand them in good stead if they go off to Uni.
Breathing down their neck, hot housing or pushing them to do subjects they dont enjoy is not.

There's a balance between helping them be the best they can be and expecting more than they are capable of

As long as you are aware a) that it is possible to have all A*s and still not get into Oxbridge because the admissions tutors don't think you are an interesting enough thinker b) that getting into Oxbridge is not the end of your career: you will only be happy and do well there if you happen to be the right fit for that particular environment.

Or to put it another way: you can push your dc to learn everything in the books and get straight A's. But you can't push him to have interesting ideas or make valuable contributions to seminars because that has to come from inside him, not inside you.

I agree there is a big difference between being a pushy mum and a mum who encourages their children to do their best.

As the daughter of a very pushy mum, I have decided that I will not do that to my children. My mother always had very high expectations for me in everthing I did. I NEVER met her expectations. That's not to say I didn't do 'well' at things...I did well academically and in my extra-curricular interests, but never met her very high expectations (Oxbridge etc). As a result I had huge self-esteem issues and feelings of failure.

Encourage your child to do their best in everything they do but don't expect them to give more than they are capable of. I was damaged by that.

As long as your children don't end up feeling so much pressure that they run like the wind from you as soon as they reach 18 then there isn't a problem. As a child of overly pushy parents (who I now have no relationship with) I think it's a fine line.

I think there is a spectrum along the lines of

neglectful - relaxed - interested - pushy - demanding

I tend to be on the pushy side of interested and that works well for me and my children but I think anywhere within the middle three options is okay if that is what makes you and your children happy.

....help when there is a problem...

Good God!

I sent mine to private school PRECISELY so that I didn't have to be breathing down their necks all the time to achieve.

The school should bloody well do that as I that is what I pay them to do. I speak schoolgirl French and it means I could check their homework if I felt the need but I don't see why I should have to!

I did learn violin when dd2 did as it was interesting to do so. She's now grade 3 and much better than me - I've completely lost interest but she is very diligent

Meant to add that I like the SCHOOL to be pushy so that I can do the fun stuff with them

I think that the key for children is enjoying learning, having ideas and asking questions, these are important in whatever they decide to do. However, I also believe that a good knowledge of grammar and persistence even if there aren't immediate payoffs are important. So I'm sitting on the fence.

But, I want my children to do it because they want to and see the rewards in that, be they a sense of achievement or the gateway to success. I can make them sit in a room but I cannot make them work hard and revise - I don't have teenagers yet as you can probably tell. I think that once they are working other skills will be just as important, motivating themselves and others, inter personal skills, so a well adjusted adult is what I am aiming for.

Not sure what learning French will do TBH. Your child should be checking his own homework and not relying on you to do it. He needs to learn independence and a sense of pride in his work. You won't be able to check his work in an exam or when he starts to work. What about sport? It is great for teaching children to stick at things, work with others and resilience. Oh yes, it is also fun too. Remember that?

I think that you are going a bit far.

Enjoying learning is very important and I can see from dd1's face when she is telling me about an amazing physics lesson that she has a great physics teacher. But she still has to plough through history which she is not interested in sadly and has to learn that you can't always be enthralled, some of it IS just slog and diligence.

AGree about sport. mine do tons and it is a great outlet.

As others have said there is a spectrum from encouraging and facilitating success up to bullying your kids. I came from a family which was towards the bullying end of the spectrum and you should be aware that being too pushy can backfire spectacularly.

I was endlessly nagged about reading, for example, and didn't pick up a book for fun until I was in my mid 20s because it had such bad associations for me.

A lot of contemporaries ended up in far worse situations as a result of pushy parenting.

Encouragement, discipline and gentle nagging are fine, in fact necessary. Making a child feel his or her right to be loved are bound up with school success (and I am sure that's not what you intend but that's how it can feel on the receiving end) can do untold damage.

It depends on how pushy you are and how much you've got your child's best interests at heart rather than your own.

My eldest DS is 21 and looking around me I'm seeing lots of the overly pushy parents starting to reap what they've sown...with complete relationship breakdowns as the young adults realise their parents are more concerned with them being a Doctor/Lawyer/whatever than their actual happiness and what they want.

As long as you're not trying to live your life through your kids, then being a bit pushy now and then isn't always a bad thing.