To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

people are tying to live vicariously through their kids

Yea I've seen that - and you can't help but feel for the DC.

Tell me op, on playdates do you go through other childrens book bags and compare then with your Children reading levels or Maths scores.

I'm new to this parenting thing, but fortunately I had amazing parents so I'll model my opinion on that and say:

Holy shit, this thread is scary as hell - I had a charmed childhood, but through my "crisis", my teenager years and my heartbreaks, the one thing that was drummed into me and I knew for sure was that my parents loved me unconditionally.

I now realise that's potentially the source of my confident outlook and the reason why I felt brave enough to do so much in my life. It even gave me the confidence to have some "average" moments in my life who did me a world of good!

The idea that your parents' love is conditional to your achievements is sad at best.

Weegiemum- so why stifle her by GCSE art?

Bonsoir
I think that parents can sometimes be qualified (or self-qualify) as pushy when they are, in fact, merely ultra supportive. And there is a world of difference between being supportive and being pushy!

I think that sums up the issue I have with pushiness.

Where is the line - and is it in the eye of the beholder?

OP, I think it's good to encourage children but I think you are overdoing it. Be careful, it might backfire.

I want my DC to be happy, do find what they truly love doing but not to have a mono-dimentional life. I would like them to be interested and to take part in sports, music, art, etc, not only to live for work. So I am encouraging while they are little to take part in all sorts of activities.

Some children are very self-motivated and don't need much encouragement, others need to be nudged a bit.

I don't want my children to lead a lazy life and I want them to know that you need to WORK for what you want. So it is important to find a healthy balance of work and fun from an early age.

So reallytired what happens if a chi is not academic and his/her very best is a D, not A*? Not all individuals are academic. I feel that the degree undermined as every Tom Dick or Harry can get into University, whereas before it was the creme la creme. I think that going into a trade is a fantastic idea for those who are not academic. Getting a Saturday or part time job in their preferred fried and working up

I was so proud of my "b's" at O level many moons ago

Sorry, but getting in to Oxbridge is just not that big a deal. The standards are not that high - not so much higher than many other universities - and you don't have to be some sort of child genius - just a pretty bright teenager, with a bit of luck in the admissions cycle, so it's not really an accomplishment in and of itself.

Nor is it a passport to fantastic career success and wealth. I know lots of people who went to top flight universities and got outstanding degrees and now have fairly modest but specialised jobs that they are happy with - school librarian, baker, tour guide - that kind of thing. It's no guarantee of what students go on to do with the rest of their lives.

Personally, I think that if your child seems to have a clear ambition or particular goals then you should do anything possible (within reason) to help them achieve them. Be as pushy as you like to open those doors for them. But there's no point in picking an ambition for them and shoving them through the doors.

I work in PR, DH works in the city, both of these have always been relatively international industries and I can't say that has massively changed recently. I think the fears about competition from abroad are being over-exaggerated or only apply to a certain niche.

Essentially any job that can be done by sitting at a desk with a computer and a phone can be out-sourced.

(Obviously any job that involves making physical artifacts can be as well, but that's not news, that's why manufacturing disappeared to the extent it has, a few decades ago.)

My IT job is going to Spain in a few weeks time (which is fine with me, I'm happily counting down the days.) My wife works for an investment bank and related areas have migrated to India and USA mid-west.

When we complain about Asda's home delivery mistakes, the call is answered in South Africa. (Quite well, according to DW. It's a pity the actual grocery-picking can't be out-sourced to somewhere more competent.)

Oddly, many of the better off people I know have learned a trade. They started off as apprentices. Some of them now earn a big fat wedge and this makes me .

Especially as people bang on about getting a degree as if it is some sort of Holy Grail.

Yes what if they are average? I had a personal tutor for maths for DS from age 10 to age 15. He did improve in classwork for a while then failed (really failed not a B) at GCSE. Has now left school and is an apprentice bricklayer, never been happier (me and him). Not everyone is academic

The biggest earners I know Re bricklayers, electricians and plumbers :)

Hi Weegie - interested that your DS can get work experience at RockStar, my son applied on his own behalf and was told they didn't offer work experience as their work was confidential..... So maybe who you know rather than pushy gets results!

Hmm.. interesting responses. I just wanted to add, DH is an Oxbridge graduate. He absolutely hates his job and quite unhappy about it (he works in finance). Yet it pays for a nice house in a nice location, kids schools, holidays, me being a SAHM .

DH 's brother did not go to university, works for a minimum wage and lives in a one bed flat with his wife and kids. He is also unhappy with his job.

I'd rather my kids hated being a doctor than a minimum wage workers. I know a degree does not guarantee a job, but most people I know are well educated and equally well off.

Piglet mania, my DC are all in very competitive schools and they all like to compare their own results with their classmates'.

If you push your children into something then they may hate their jobs and may hate you too!

You need to encourage and facilitate them but let them make their OWN decisions with regard to where, what and how hard they study.

I know a 50 year old Doctor who only became a Doctor because of his parents. He hates his job and still blames his parents after all these years.

One of my DC's is at medical school, it was completely his choice. I didn't help him get work experience and I didn't go with him to open days. I kew that if he was serious he would work things out for himself. ( Obviously, I did help with some things such as transportation to interviews etc ).

He is amazed how many of the medical students are there because of their parents or schools expectations. They were forced to be passive players in their wn future. I think that is a great shame.

I think it is an awful thing to choose your child's future career. It is meddling and overbaring parenting at its worst.

Well, I'd love to have a doctor in the family but DS1 wants to work in finance just like his dad. DH tried to discourage him, but DS is adamant and I am going to respect his choices.

"I'd love to have a doctor in the family".

"I'd love to have a harpist in the family".

"I'd love to have a shaman in the family"

Erm if you didn't respect his choices what would you do? Force him to choose something YOU approve of? This is all very odd. going to step out of this now as maybe i am a bit sensitive about this subject. its all a bit close to the bone for me at the moment following the death of one of our med students :(

Clifton that wasn't aimed at you by the way but other pushy posters living their children's lives for them!

I've grown up with pushy parents, mainly my mother and our relationship has certainly suffered because of it. Going to uni, whether it be Oxbridge or not, is not the bee all and end all of success and happiness. I've spent my life in education, finishing up a PhD currently and my job prospects are awful, jobs are just few and far between. I know several people who left Oxford uni and had to go and work in bars and supermarkets because their degree just didn't open the right job doors.

Sorry to hear about it Readysteady :(

The difference money makes eh? I know that life isnt fair, but you are incredibly privileged to just decide to throw money at it and then congratulate yourself for being pushy. The factor in your children going to top university rather then a normal one will be entirely down to money and not being pushy.

Rights aid, I've also got degree that I never used. Looking back, I think I should have studied a profession, not a subject. I am doing some courses now because my degree is useless and I want to work when all dc are in secondary schools. That's why I'll encourage them to study something useful, like my DH.