To be fed up with having to always make the effort if I want to meet up with anybody?

[DogCatDogCatDog]

I probably am being unreasonable but I just needed a rant.

I really am getting fed up with always being the one to make the effort with friends, and this works both ways whether they have initiated a meet up or I have.

A few days ago a friend asked me if I wanted to go out on Sunday night (last night) to get something to eat. I said yes, I was definitely up for it. We didn't arrange a specific time to meet as neither of us were sure exactly what we were up to yesterday during the day, so I text her at about midday asking if we were still on for last night, and got no reply. I waited several hours until around 4pm and really wanted to find out what we were doing. I tried to call her, and she didn't answer her phone, so I sent a Facebook message and got a reply 'Sorry, I'm a bit tired now, do you mind if we give it a miss tonight?'.

Other times friends will invite me out, or to lunch, and then when I contact them to confirm they will have forgotten. Or other times the planned meet will go ahead but it's always up to me to chase people up. If I don't, then I'd never go to anything or meet anybody.

Then I find when I try to initiate meets I am also the one doing all the organising. No one will ever contact me to ask if we're all still meeting up, and if I didn't do the contacting then again I just would never meet with anyone. About 3 weeks ago I arranged a get together for next weekend with some old friends. I know that unless I contact them all this week and confirm/book taxis then no one will contact me.

Does anyone else have the same problem in friendships? I'm really quite cross about my friend yesterday, as she suggested it, and she is out meeting friends tonight. She has suggested re-arranging but again I know that if I do not make the effort and suggest a day to reschedule for then it just won't happen!

[smile Ilove

That should be obviously.

I've really been thinking lots about this overnight

It's occurred to me that in so many of my friendships it is me that makes all the effort, all the time. Not just in terms of organising things, but also in terms of travelling to meet people and always being the one inconvenienced if for example, the other person is late, or 'forgets' they are meeting me (and it's amazing the amount of people that have diaries but still forget things planned with me, although they remember other things with other people). I've actually got to a soft play venue before and waited for half an hour before texting the other person and for them to reply 'Oh shit I'd forgotten, going to have to leave it now as X has come round for a playdate with the kids'.

I have one friend who lives in a town which is about 30 miles away, and it is always me that makes the effort to drive to her town to meet up. If I don't do that then we don't meet up. Hence a trip to meet her takes the best part of a schoolday for me, with no time to do anything else, whilst she waltzes 2 minutes up the road to meet me (always late too!), has a coffee for a couple of hours and then is home again in 2 minutes whilst I've got a trek home on a rubbish road. I think the last time she came to my town was about 3 years ago, and that was a one off.

I also have so-called friends from other areas (met online) that holiday in a holiday location 10 miles away from me, and don't suggest meeting up with me, yet are happy for me to travel 50 miles or so to where they live. And yet some people seem to have online friends travelling to them from all over the country and insisting that they meet for a coffee as they are 'in the area'.

I just give up on it all

You sound angry and resentful DogCat, and whilst on the one hand that's completely understandable in the light of how you've been treated, on the other hand few people want to spend time with someone who they can sense resents them on some level. You don't really sound as though you like your friends - and frankly I'm not surprised, given their treatment of you. Do you think it's possible that you want to have friends and so do all the running with these people, rather than really genuinely like them for who they are?

I'm guilty of tempting people over to see me instead of going to them. BUT I always make it well worth their while if they've come any distance by making them a really nice lunch. and plying them with wine I don't really do the whole meeting for coffee in a cafe, I'd rather not see someone for ages but then have a long lunch (or them stay the night), walk the dog somewhere lovely, get indecently drunk properly catch up with them. Then nothing for a while again. Having said that I do have a really good friend locally with whom I walk the dog every Friday, and I'm happy to spend that time regularly with her (maybe because we're doing something, and I find lots of chatting easier if I don't have to be making eyecontact all the time so walking is better for me) [wierdo emoticon]

Honestly Dog I think you should forget these people without a backward glance - if any of them are your friends then they'll be in touch sooner or later, and if you let them make the arrangements then they're more likely to keep them. And if they don't... Fuck Them!

Do things that interest you and be friendly to others but don't chase them, and you'll make decent friends, I bet!

Yes, I do feel quite angry and resentful Crabby. I am just so fed up with making all the effort and getting nothing back. I think it's really unfair that I am always expected to make the effort, and to travel.

I will be doing what you have suggested and won't be contacting many people again, not for the time being.

If anyone wants to meet up with me they can contact me, and travel to my house to see me.

DogCat I know exactly how you're feeling, especially regarding one particular friend. She and I met through work and would meet up for a night out and coffee when possible.

A few months ago a new person joined the team, my friend has dropped me like a brick in favour of her. She still talks to me and to start with it was the 3 of us but they are both single while I'm married so they don't include me anymore.

A trip we had planned, the 3 of us, I have now found out is for the 2 of them. I am backing out of the friendship. I still chat at work but that is all.

I have read all of this thread because this is how I feel a lot of the time with my 'friends'. A lot of posters have said make new friends but how?

I am in my 50's and most people my age seem to have close friends they have known for years and it seems difficult to break into those sort of friendships. So what do you do?

I think it's important to try and be a good friend whilst maintaining boundaries so if you drift apart you don't feel like you have to cling on to make it work as you've put so much in. Try not to give too much of yourself (time, effort, money) but be fair and nice with other people and see what happens. And hide/ defriend on fb so they're not giving you rage everytime you see their status updates detailing their social life!

fairy have you thought about doing an evening course? I've been doing one and there is people of all ages making friends.

Hmm it's tricky. I feel like on the one hand your expectations of people are not high enough, in that you are not pulling people up when they are being very rude to you. I'm astounded that so many people not only cancel on you but outright tell you it's because they forgot and made plans with other people! That's crazy!

But on the other hand, I wonder if in some ways you are not expecting too much of people also. For example, it's not really so weird not to want to travel 30 miles to see someone, unless they are a very close friend. It's nice that you are willing, but the other person is not necessarily unreasonable if she doesn't want to. It just means your expectations are different.

In some ways you sound a bit transactional, like just because you put in an effort, the other person should as well. But that's not necessarily a fair basis for friendship.

Also your online friends probably just want to have a nice family holiday, they don't want to make plans with people they don't know that well. Just because other people do meet up doesn't mean it's so weird if others don't.

I don't mean to be too critical, I definitely think your friends are being rude to you, I just think it's also worth thinking about whether you might be happier with the new friends you are going to make if you keep your expectations modest and just kind of go with the flow.

I totally know what you mean, dreaming. I think I myself am confused about it all too and don't know up from down.

With regards to the friend who lives 30 miles away, it is always her that suggests the meet ups. She has very few friends, and says she feels lonely, but whenever she wants to meet it always involves me travelling to her. She will suggest a soft play centre for example that is literally on her doorstep, or that we meet at Costa coffee in her town. I think the fault there lies with me though as I'm not assertive enough to say "I've been to your town for the last few meet ups we had, I'd prefer it if you came to me this time". I get invited to things by people who live in other towns or other areas, but there is always the expectation there that I will travel.

I know I probably do sound transactional, but in a way I do feel that friendships should be fair, and should balance out in the end. I appreciate there will be times when one is giving more and the other taking more, but to have it all one sided, all the time?? I don't know, it just doesn't seem fair to me.

The online friends are people that I have met before at meet ups, some I meet fairly regularly in a group. Plus if they are in other areas then they suggest meeting up with other people who live there. But there is always that expectation that I will travel to them. I think I can only blame myself really in all honesty, as I should make it clear at the start of a friendship that I won't travel far to meet up.

Gosh, I'm sorry, but your friends do sound crazy! You're right, that is taking the P, always asking someone to come to you.

I think you should definitely be more assertive about that.

Could there be some practical reason people expect you to travel more? You have a car, they don't, or they have young children, you don't...

Well, the friend that always suggests meeting in her neck of the woods has a car, and her youngest is 3. Even when my youngest was a newborn she expected me to travel. I think she is just lazy tbh. She will often suggest inviting a mutual friend along to our meets and assume I will ask her.

The thing is, I do like her generally, and I know that if I don't travel and don't make the effort then it will be friendship over.....But I don't know if I am that bothered about it ending anymore really

Would you miss these friendships if you had new and better friendships to occupy your time?

No I don't think I'd miss them tbh dreaming.

YANBU. I have this issue with a couple of friends. I feel like for the whole of our relationship I've made more effort than them. Specifically I invite them to every party and social thing I do, they hardly ever come. Last birthday I didn't even get a card or a birthday text from one of them. And it seems like they do loads of stuff that they don't invite me to. They always deny this and say they never socialise, though Facebook tells a different story... I can't help but feel that I just don't fit into their lifestyle. They're both much better off than me and one of them has kids and lots of their friends have kids. It seems like my face doesn't fit. Though we've been friends since school.

So I stopped making the effort. With the net result that we barely ever see each other at all now. I haven't heard from either of them for months and months but now I'm pg they've suddenly got in touch to ask about it, how I'm doing etc. Which has really pissed me off because what would have been nice was if they'd asked how I was doing during the really tough few months when we were ttc and I felt like I was losing the plot at times. But they've both basically said that they were scared to ask, which is absolutely pathetic. It's a difficult situation and you're not sure what to say so you just stay away, how crap is that?!

It all sounds a bit petty now I'm saying it and I've rehearsed what I would say to them 100000 times and it always sounds petty then too but I know I'm right that our friendships have always been one sided, with me making more effort than them. And it makes me really sad that I've stopped doing that and they don't seem to have noticed. But you can't make someone be friends with you or want to spend time with you. If they wanted to see more of me, they would. Sigh.

I know someone really flaky. She arranges to meet up, then on the day there is always an excuse why she can't. It annoyed me a lot and I have posted on here about it. But then one day on her facebook page someone had written

'I waited in for you all afternoon, looking out the window to see if you were coming'
Her: 'Did you get my text?'
'Yes I got the text saying you were running late, then nothing...'

After that I thought well at least it's not only me she treats this way!

Like I said earlier in the thread, it baffles me how flaky people manage to keep friends. Yet the flaky ones are the most popular. Maybe it's because their flakiness looks like they are playing hard to get?

Holly, the way your friends have treated you is awful. You did the right thing in stopping contact.

Dog I agree with what dreamingbohemian said, in that I think you are putting up with too much crap from people on the one hand, and expecting a bit too much on the other. I wouldn't necessarily call in on a friend if on a family holiday nearby either, tbh, and wouldn't expect a friend to do so to me - holidays are usually microplanned and crammed with stuff to do.

Holly I don't tend to mix my friends - if I'm seeing a friend then I wouldn't usually invite other friends just to make a larger group. I'd rather see people separately and one-on-one, iyswim. Why would you expect them to invite you to all their social outings? It's not a criticism if your 'face doesn't fit' one group - I've got friends with very different personalities, interests, senses of humour etc, whom I don't think would necessarily hit it off and therefore I wouldn't want to be with them at the same time.

I probably do put up with too much and expect too much at the same time. Also I suppose it's not really very realistic if I expect great things from friends that don't treat me too well in the first place is it?

Maybe that's it really -- you need to tailor your expectations to individual people a bit more tightly. So you don't expect too much from people who are not that close, don't treat you very nicely, etc., and save the higher expectations for people you are close to and can count on.

There's no point expecting more and being disappointed, over and over.

Also, I would almost say, don't try to torture yourself too much trying to figure out what's going on. Some of this stuff is just inexplicable. I've usually been lucky to have good friends around but I have also gone through some periods where I had almost no friends at all -- but I was the same person pretty much throughout, so who knows? Friendship dynamics can be very strange.

Crabby, I know what you're saying but I get on with all their friends, always have. Some of them have even become friends in their own right and we've seen each other separately. I don't expect them to invite me to ALL their social outings, but some, or most, would be nice. We've been friends since school, why wouldn't they invite me? I always just tend to invite all my friends to stuff as they all get on and are pretty easy going and similar in outlook. I get the feeling that people fall in and out of favour with these 2 friends (they're sisters). We have a mutual friend whom they've been friends with since infancy who seems to be persona non grata now. A few times in the past I'd be going to one of their parties and would see her and ask her if she was going. She'd always say "nfi" (not fucking invited). It seems like I'm the one who's nfi these days.

But as you wisely say Dreaming, there's probably no point in trying to figure out why. It is what it is. For whatever reason they don't want me to be as big a part of their life as they used to and for my own sanity I just need to accept that and move on. It just annoys me then when they contact me after months of radio silence and act as if nothing has happened. I know you're supposed to be able to do with this good friends but I also think that friendships, all relationships, have to be worked on and it's not good enough to just disappear from someone's life because they don't quite fit as well as they used to then reappear again months later.

I do have some other really amazing friends who are there, aren't flaky, who do make the effort and whose lives I don't feel excluded from. One of whom has 3 month old baby and has been able to maintain contact and meet ups, which just proves that the whole "I've got a baby so I can't ever see you" thing is bullshit.

We have a mutual friend whom they've been friends with since infancy who seems to be persona non grata now. A few times in the past I'd be going to one of their parties and would see her and ask her if she was going. She'd always say "nfi" (not fucking invited). It seems like I'm the one who's nfi these days.

Jesus what are they, 12?? I just wouldn't bother with them at all, if they played those sorts of games. Also, if I felt like I'd been deliberately snubbed by someone, I simply wouldn't answer the phone or return their calls if they got in touch and tried to pretend that nothing had happened. Life's too short!

To be honest, people only get one or two chances with me - if they fuck me about or let me down, I withdraw right back and they have to work pretty hard (if it's even possible) to regain my trust. There are too many kind and decent people out there to waste time with arseholes, trust me.

Dog stop letting these people use you as a 'back-up' friend for when there's nothing better on offer and insist on being treated with respect - if they don't, stop chasing them and avoid them for a while. Then you'll be making space to meet new people - don't expect too much time and commitment from people to start with, but certainly do expect that if someone makes an arrangement with you, they stick to it or let you know in good time about changes.

Crabbybigbottom, that is so true about moving around and expat friends!

I find I don't really want the clingy tell all friendships some women want and need, I can't be texting and calling every day with my plans and feelings, " off to the shops" type stuff.

I have managed to find a couple of women like me, who need a friend but are happy to meet sporadically, not know each others business, but helpful and kind when needed. It suits me, I don't have the emotional capacity I don't think to have a full on daily friendship iyswim. My dc and dh take up my time and thoughts and I don't really have any to spare for someone needy.

Sounds awful written down, but I have tried in the past to be the type of 24/7 friend some women want, which reminds me of teenagers really, and I just can't do it!

Dogcat I haven't time to read whole thread but I might have an explanation for this.

"Another friend never replies to texts if I send them to her first, only replies to my replies to her texts. If I was to text her now and suggest a coffee tomorrow she wouldn't reply. If she was to text me about something and then I replied to her, she would then reply to that. Weird. And rude"

You're friend may probably like me and doesn't text much. I only text people who seem to prefer texting. I usually phone using landline or use email. I much prefer people to phone me. So if I text someone who likes to receive texts, I will keep phone handy and check it about 3 times in a day for a response. But I sometimes see texts from other people about 2 days later.

But I am not at all flaky about arrangements with friends and I do tell people, if you need a quick response, call me.