To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

I think you're about 13 pages too late Olivia.

If you tell her the truth it is unlikely to go down well - however justified you may be no-one likes hearing their child criticised, and hse is bound to think there is some mitigating factor that you are not allowing for. I would avoid saying it out loud if you value her friendship and wish to keep it.

Just plan all of your meetings away from your home so you can choose to leave if it gets too much. And do leave - don't feel obliged to stay and provide an audience for the tantrums. If you make your excuses and say 'Ellie seems tired/upset today, perhaps we'll go now and give her some space' or whatever, the mum should get the message soon enough if you are consistent.

Try to arrange to see her in the evening or when the children are at nursery and gradually reduce contact with the four of you together.

Ha! Looks like I am too

I witnessed a very public meltdown/tantrum in the W H Smith at Heathrow airport once, from a child of about 4 or 5 who wanted her very well spoken professional-type sap of a father to buy her two toys/books and he said she had to choose only one. Or at least he tried to say she must choose only one.

She did an exact impression of Verruca Salt, or Violet Elizabeth Bott (I'll scream and scream until I'm sick ) and I stood there open mouthed as her father begged her to stop, tried and failed to get authoratative, and finally said 'Alright! Alright! You can have both the damned things! But please just stop it now. See what you've done? You got your own way - happy now? So please just stop.'

And she did. t was like the flick of a switch. I've never seen a child recover from a bout of hysterical sobbing so quickly in my life. she turned it off like a tap. And then she smiled smugly to herself and I was overcome with the urge to slap her. Or him. i'm not sure who deserved it most.

I had to shuffle DD1 out of the fish and chip shop this afternoon. Our own fault, we'd given her a busy day and it was just too much. She couldn't control her behaviour and she'd had 2 warnings, so I told DH I'd walk her home and they could follow.

She was dropping to the floor, clinging onto the door, clinging onto shop windows as we passed them. Ripcurling screams. It wasn't a pretty sight to see a 7 year old with a woman behind her, shuffling her forward with hands under armpits. Had to be done.

But, I've been 'doing' this 4 years now. I know what DD1 does, I know what to do. I know that she does it because her brain is physically malformed. That means that as excruciating as it is, I have confidence that I'm doing what I can. Until afterwards, when I fall apart in private.

This woman either needs support to manage her DD's behaviour, or she needs support to recognise her SN and manage her DD's behaviour.

I'm all for Fellatio here - controlled contact is the way to go. And if even that doesn't protect your DS, then leave it out for a bit.

The most appalling toddler I have ever had the misfortune to know actually did turn out to be SEN - five years later. The key to maintaining safety and sanity during that time was to push one's comfort zone - but only a bit (for the sake of the parents), keep smaller children away (no compromise on that) and to meet for coffee, not marathon trips. Don't do anything you really resent. Oh, and never, ever be rude.

Several years later, said little sod is entirely adorable and highly achieving, and I thank the Lord daily for my rare capability to shut up.

This woman either needs support to manage her DD's behaviour

The issue might be her present support system. If in her circle online and off GD is the unifying factor then she might be caught in an echo chamber.

Lougle I feel your pain..had to pick DD off museum floor several times today..taking child with severe ASD to museum on bank holiday..bad idea.

Hope no one was glaring..although they probably did.

To my eternal shame, before I had DD, I saw a girl of about 11 having a tantrum on the bus, her mum had to get off. I was ignorant and judged her and tutted.

I think karma is biting me on the ass now.

Oh :( I had thought the thread had started to get to relatively equilibrial point where we were getting common ground.

You pop out for a takeaway ....

I am glad you have talked your friend and are seeing her for another chat during the week bb,whatever the outcomes having the confidence to be truthful about your feelings is important. Hopefully your friend, if she is feeling overwhelmed, will find courage in your honesty and perhaps be able to voice her concerns.

I hope all goes well for you both and the kids xx

It's the bad parenting inference that would hurt though, I think?
My DD has autism, and speech and language disorder - and is good natured and pretty much smiles all the time. My older DS is also good natured and smiley,but NT - just the luck of the draw.

Ah, this is a toughie. You need to respect your DC's needs. But it sounds like your friend needs some tough love.

Have you come across Oliver James's book Lovebombing? It worked brilliantly with 3yo DS (although he still has his moments at 4yo). Might be worth mentioning to your friend, as it's about giving the DC more, rather than taking something away, which she might be more open to iyswim.

OP Maybe you telling her the same as another Mum friend will be the catalyst she needs to make some changes. I hope she can before she loses more friends. Sad really isn't it!

This is very simplistic, but I just don't see the issue. OP's dc simply can't cope with the other child's tantrums. But for whatever reason, she's not comfortable saying that. So the options are:
Stop contact until the dc's behaviour normalises (unlikely if she does have SN, 7 hour tantrums suggest more than simple bad parenting)
Set some decent boundaries for playdates (eg, only Thursday's, stick to the park, maximum time of 2 hours)

The OP doesn't have to put up with this. Especially if its strssing her and her own dc out. Plenty of our friends dumped us once ds1's SN became apparent, and although it (still) feels harsh and upsetting, it's their prerogative. We messed up their precariously balanced, busy-but-tidy lives with our chaos. And, in fairness, they'd gave dumped us just as fast if the problem had been parenting.

According to some on here she does have to put up with it.

I don't think anyone has said OP should put up with it, have they?

My beef was purely with calling the child a dreadful brat and her mother useless if she did turn out to have SN ..

Really..?

I didnt see anyone say that.

Maybe it was a wrongly assumed tacit belief?

To clarify.

OP, it's stressful enough coping with a dc who has 7h meltdowns without also having to constantly consider whether your friends can cope with it. If you really can't: politely withdraw. If you can, your friend will need and appreciate your support, but probably won't be able to take on setting the boundaries that keep you ok.

I used to 'police' my dc constantly, and 'pretend to be a normal family'. It's exhausting and harmful, and when I was focussing on keeping friends and relatives comfortable, my parenting was (putting it bluntly) sh*te. Now I stick with those who can deal with us.

One practical point: if there's ever (God forbid) a 7h shoe tantrum in your house again, quietly excusing yourself and taking your dc out to the park will (most likely) either result in them joining you, or you returning soon afterwards to an empty house.

Good idea and good points.

Fanjo, and Pictish, no, no-one's suggested that as far as I can see. My post was influenced by my feeling that the OP had got stuck in a slightly black and white 'AIBU' mindset. Being unreasonable or not, isn't the issue to me, it's whether she can manage the effort to fix the problem or not, and whether she feels it's worth the effort.

Was that Olivia singing to you lot?

Ha ha!

It was mymate who said she wasn't much of a friend if she didn't just put up with it and got quite nasty about it. I've just read through again and yes some have said the mum is ineffective but she is irrespective of any sn the child may have, what she is doing isn't working in any shape or form. Not one person on here with a sn child said they would stay for 3 hours trying to convince a child to put shoes on the common theme is to pick the child up and remove them.

This child hadn't been called a brat someone used the term to refer to another child whose behaviour they witnessed ( the one at the airport who switched the screaming off and smiled smugly when dad gave in)

I think you should just avoid meeting her at your home so much, so that you can make an excuse and leave when it gets too much.

This will all come to an end when they start Reception in a year or so, and will be busy in the daytime and also make new friends!

Seriously? Op should leave her own home

Boundaries in her own home are perfectly acceptable to keep her and her child okay.

I'm so glad most parents of SN children don't have that sort of ridiculous attitude. Including my DH, as my DSS has SN.

I can see both sides here. Otoh thinking of a child in terms like brat is not very helpful and dumping somebody because of their child is also harsh.

Otoh being unable to step in to protect your own child can also be a problem. I forced ds to put up with my friend's fighting and destructive boys for years and it wasn't a happy situation for ds who has very little to put up against them. They are now pre-teens and it is still not clear whether they have SN or whether it's a parenting issue. (Therapist seems to think it's parenting, I am still wondering about SN.) But ds is adamant that he will no longer be used as a punch bag or have his room thrashed.

Perhaps this does come under the heading of messing up his "precariously balanced, busy-but-tidy lives with our chaos". But again, this seems rather harsh, seeing that ds is a gentle and kind boy who finds fighting intimidating and knows we can't afford to keep replacing things that get broken.

The thing is he knows that if they were his siblings (with or without SN), I would intervene to stop other children being hurt, even if it meant physical restraint. He also knows that these parents will not do that. His sister used to have violent tendencies and he trusted me to keep him safe. He doesn't trust these parents. Hard not to see his point. So I am afraid I have allowed him to drop them. I feel awful about it, but tbh I wouldn't keep inviting somebody round for dinner who started fights and might beat me up, even if they had SN, not unless they came with a carer who knew what to do.