To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

I wouldn't put up with my child hiding under a bed, not for a minute. Why should they have to live in fear of an out of control visitor?

Was this referring to my post about my dd2 under the bed?

I think it was in response to the OPs son hiding under the bed.

hazey my Dsis Sil at first thought it was all made up (food reactions etc) and gave DN flying saucers right before he was due to go home.

Cue mother of all meltdowns. Poor Dsis ended up black and blue. So did the air....

I am not minimising how difficult it is, I had my DS, SN DN and younger DN to mind when baby, 5 and 9mnths and not full time. Knowing what hard work it is to get people to believe you, to manage behaviours etc is part of the reason I feel so cross with people who have (possibly non-SN) kids and just don't make any attempt at discipline/socialisation.

It's just not on and really disrespectful to inflict bad behaviour on others. Whether there are special needs or not, the behaviour has the same impact.

This is why SN mums stick together!

It is not the same as more tolerance needs to be given to any child with SN where their SN affects their behaviour.

So according to this my dd shouldn't be inflicted on anyone because her SN is behavioural in nature!

Wow...

Hazey... No, it was in respect of the OP, not your post.

Dinky... BEHAVIOUR, not the person. That's what many posters have been saying. There's a world of difference between taking steps to control a child's behaviour and not doing anything useful to stop a behaviour impacting adversely on somebody else.

Nobody has the right to insist that their child's needs trumps another's. Inclusion is ALL children and that's the point I was making.

It's one thing for 'SN mums' to stick together but if you have no appreciation or consideration for the children of non-SN mums then you're largely going to get back an 'echo'.

Yes but behavioural based SNs need more patience. Sweeping statements like

It's just not on and really disrespectful to inflict bad behaviour on others. Whether there are special needs or not, the behaviour has the same impact.

Shows no respect for the individual child with SN.
It doesn't sound inclusive if the child can't help their behaviour. So one has suggested this mother sat by and did nothing. Plus not all traditional behavioural modification works on all children SN or not. So to say something like 'inflicted' is pretty harsh...

Or shall I just segregate my dd?

I wouldn't want to 'inflict' her unintentional behavioural issues on your poor non SN DCs...

I have said I agree with the steps my friend put into place to limit the effect on her dd.... However when we are together she appreciates my dd can't help her behaviour as it is part of her SN, which is a part of her, so her behaviour is part of her as a person.

Also I don't think you'll find many that said that they didn't feel for OP as I said I get annoyed at DD sometimes.

Some of the replies have been very against the idea that, this type of behaviour can be SN in nature, then it became a little 'SN OR NOT'

Harsh in my eyes!

Dinky... Agreed. Absolutely.

My comment wasn't intended to be a sweeping generalisation and I'm sorry if it comes across that way. I have in mind specific experiences, that is my personal frame of reference and obviously, other people have their own.

Perhaps 'inflicted' isn't the right word; it seems to be emotive. I don't know a better word that means what I think. I don't mean it harshly.

I don't know about your daughter's SN but I know about my friend's DD's SN. She can 'flip out' (friend's term) very quickly, anywhere at any time and has no concept of danger, traffic, etc. She needs watching constantly as she's adept at playing quietly one minute and disappearing like a flash of light the next. Obviously, I can talk to my friend about what she (my friend) needs me to do when I'm with her, how I can help, etc. and I do. I would bodily pick up my friend's child if necessary and move her from danger. I know that when my friend's DD is having an episode, sometimes nothing works but to completely pin her down to prevent her hurting herself and other children around her.

I know there's a whole spectrum of SN behaviours and I don't pretend to understand them. I know of what I'm exposed to and believe me, I'm sympathetic. I would do anything to help my friend.

I suppose the point that I'm making is that, to me, a tantruming, shouting, hitting child is potentially a danger to others and yes, some element of explanation to the non-SN child can be given but what do you do when that child is too young to grasp what you're saying? All they see is a child that is out-of-control and could hurt them, they're looking to you, the parent, for assurance that all is well - and then maybe they DO get an unmeant wallop from the out-of-control child. It takes both attending parents to take care of the children - BOTH children. It takes a 'joint approach', in my opinion, not an expectation that non-SN parent/child WILL understand and know exactly what should be done. For clarification, that is what I meant about consideration.

In answer to your question, Dinky, about whether your DD should be segregated. I would say, no, of course not, but then again, I don't believe that you'd stand by and let your child distress or injure another.

oh my goodness - a lot of responses. After much soul searching, I called my friend this morning and explained the situation. I basically said that my ds is struggling to cope with her dd when she gets worked up and would she mind if we cooled things off for a few weeks. She went a bit quiet and said that I wasn't the first friend to say this to her .

I'm going to her house on Wednesday without ds so will have good chat then. I feel shit about it but I want to support her.

Also (sorry I haven't read the whole thread) I really don't think her dd has SN (cant be certain though obviously) I really think its the way she is parented.

It's natural to feel shit about it. But your DS is your first priority. And if she doesn't understand that then she's not much of a friend.

Dinky... cross-posted with you in the meantime. It does get 'SN or not' here because that is what seems to be the flashpoint on MN.

To me, it's the 'behaviour' that is the outcome; whatever is causing it is often unknown as some people referred to undiagnosed conditions. Therefore we don't know if it's SN or not and to me, it's more important to know what I could do/would be expected to do/understand in order to help.

It is very difficult to post about this subject because it is terribly emotive; I understand that. It's very easy to cause offence where none is meant and for some people, there seems to be an 'argument filter' where none is necessary.

Perhaps I would do better, when I see posts on this topic, to read them as if it's my friend posting? Perhaps, the posters of children with SN posting here could read posts as if it's their friend asking? Maybe we would have more tolerance and appreciation for each other?

Good for you know OP, glad you are sticking to your original idea of seeing her without one of the children.

oh, and just to clarify the 7 hours - got to mine at 11, was getting ready to leave at 3 and it took til 6 to get her dd's shoes on because of the catastrophic meltdown she was having.

"She went a bit quiet and said that I wasn't the first friend to say this to her"

She isn't taking it on board much if yet another person has had to say it.

Please remember that you don't have to tolerate anything you don't want to, be that screaming, ineffectual parenting, your son upset or eating bananas. You have a choice - you're not responsible for other people's children nor is it your job to manage other people's behaviour.

Well done OP -that must've been hard, but it's good to know you can srill be friends outside of the children.

I think well done too - and it must be sort of a relief not to be the one breaking the news to her, as it were.
Maybe now she'll look into what she needs to do to help her DD?

Three hours to get her child's shoes on?????

FFS - she needs a parenting course, by the sound of it. Gentle parenting is one thing, completely ineffectual parenting is another.

Well done to you OP for arranging to chat things over.

Laughing at your about face there lying witch.

I have no problem with answering a well meaning OP in a friendly manner, and indeed did.

Find it more difficult when people are making objectionable comments or being outright snidey to me, my friends don't tend to do that.

As for it being because 'SN is an argument filter' for some people, meaning me, I assume, that's just another version of SN brigade type comments.

There is no argument filter, just objection to some comments. As there is with any subject.

Now I don't think we shall ever agree so I will gladly not speak to you again, I am sure that will be agreeable.

I see you read the thread Juneau

Oh, was it a wind-up?

Don't think so

Good on you OP. Least you've been honest and perhaps your chat on Weds means you will find a way of working through this. Poor woman is probably losing friends left, right and centre.