To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

I wish people would live by it but I know sadly they won't.

Fanjo... As usual, you don't read posts. I said the non-medical diagnosis was irritating. It's clear, black and white.

You DO ramp up to illustrate your points. It's unnecessary. Your points are valid without needing that.

I'm not going to get into a 'grudge' match with you. I really am going out.

I did read it

I dont consciously ramp up..I speak from.the heart.

Oh ffs.

Lying I have reported your post.

If you really like your friend, you need to communicate honestly, but in a caring way. Presumably you don't want her to have to go through this awfulness and neither does she, it's horrible for everyone.

But do be honest and say that your child can't cope with her daughter's behaviour. If you just focus on the behaviour, it's much less personal.

Tell her you're worried about her daughter's rages and see if together you can talk through some ways to help improve the situation.

It's that or just keep making excuses and never see her again. Which will probably also make you and her feel unhappy. If indeed her daughter has special needs, she and her mum need caring support and not outright rejection.

I think as a society it is all of our jobs to raise the next generation. That means supporting, engaging, listening, acting etc. not isolating, ignoring and judging.

Whatever caused the behaviour. WHATEVER. This mother isn't for WHATEVER reason, able to get her dd to behave in a way that society finds acceptable. She needs HELP, not shunning.

What the hell has Lying said that needs reporting, Starlight? (Genuine question).

In all the time I've lurked on MN prior to taking an active part and since then too I don't think I've ever agreed with pictish. I do here.

I also think it means calling people out on unacceptable behaviour though Starlight and while the OP may want to help and may be able to help it is entirely her choice to spend her time doing that or not.

Signposting her friend on if she doesn't want her own child to be adversely impacted is perfectly acceptable.

We do have a responsibility to look after each other as human beings but I do not think that extends to putting up with behaviour that adversly impacts on our DCs lives (or even our own when it might jeapordise our mh etc iyswim)

As I said upthread I think we all too often do put up with terrible behaviour while searching around for 'reasons' why we are doing so. It is ok to say I find this behaviour unacceptable in my home.

If the friend needs help it is not automatically the OPs responsibility to diagnose or treat or put up with or educate. Support to the level she feels she can maybe.

The child may not have any SNs, but, going merely on what has been described, it is a possibility that she does. [quite likely IMO]

Based on that assumption, while I can totally understand the OPs important need to put her child first, I do feel very much for the Mum.

This is her normal.

When you are dealing with a child like this, it can get all consuming, you can be so wrapped up in getting through the day that you just don't realise how not normal it all is.

You try to do normal things, but it gets harder and harder.

Lots of parents of children with SNs end up being very isolated.

Im glad that my child with autism was my 3rd, I think my parenting would have been judged a lot more if people didn't know my older children.

If he had been my first child, I think I would have assumed that it was all my fault and I must have been doing it all wrong, I can only imagine how that would have affected my self esteem.

Pre diagnosis is really hard.

You lose friends when you have a child with SNs, but most of them go at the pre diagnosis stage.

So yeah, I really feel for this Mum and Im not judging the OP here, I do understand her dilema, but I wouldn't agree that she should stop seeing her friend because of this, but I suppose it depends on the level of friendship.

Or, to put it more bluntly, the OP is a mother/(insert occupation). She is not a public service, a counsellor, a paediatrician or a charity. Her priority is her own child and sense of happiness, not anyone else's.

'I also think it means calling people out on unacceptable behaviour though'

yes of course. The OP should not have let the friend stay, and should have made it clear when her child's behaviour was unacceptable for her house and for the impact on her own child, but whilst also offering support, help or the opportunity to work together to make things more comfortable for all involved.

It is too easy and imo irresponsible to simply refuse to see someone, especially someone that you like, simply because their child can't be 'included' for whatever reason. There is a long way to go before it needs to come to that, and being shunned from mainstream society for WHATEVER reason is going to make things worse, not better both for the child and parent, but also society.

'I do not think that extends to putting up with behaviour that adversly impacts on our DCs lives'

No-one should put up with behaviour that adversly impacts on their dc's (though some exposure to a variety of children with a variety of needs is good for them), but 'not putting up with' can be done in much more inclusive ways.

And you reported LyingWitchInTheWardrobe for that, starlight?

Oh yes, Someone upthread [starlight?] said how it must be very stressful for this little girl, I agree.

One of the hard bits about being in this kind of situation, is that you come to the realisation that you just can't do lots of very normal things, like go to a friends house and sit and chat while the children play.

Way too stressful for your child.

Your friend is not dealing with the situation at all, is she? What's she teaching the child by staying in someone's house for 7 hours (!) because her dd tantrumed when told they were going home?
However hard it must be for her, she's bringing the majority of it on herself by the sound of things.
She wouldn't be doing it in my house either, YANBU.

Wow...

Ok... This seriously needs a dial down...

I'm with those who have said it is wholly possible SN is at play here. No typical kid goes that long in a tantrum to stay somewhere when the other child is off somewhere else.

My dd is very challenging and is the shoe refuser type. I'm the over my shoulder you go type. This may sound awful but I once forced her Wellies on in the snow and let her walk without her coat, as she refused to put it on to leave the childminders house. She soon changed her mind. It might sound cruel but we weren't getting anywhere in the childminders and she had already been there 3 hours.

No one but a professional can try to tell the other mother how to deal with that behaviour unless they have had to deal with it 24/7! Not all strategies work on all kids. Super nanny doesn't work on my undiagnosed but being assessed for PDA child.

Obviously I'd be pretty annoyed if I was on the other side of a 7 hour visit. I get annoyed with my own dd at times. Even with knowing she is being assessed for SN.

The original post and the title are contradictory. The title days she won't see her anymore the post says she will. So the friend is obviously torn.

I would be asking the other parent if they want to chat on the phone one night when the kids are in bed so the other parent can offload a bit. Then mention going to see the health visitor. Let the HV decide if it is an SN issue or a parenting one.

It was a friend who pointed out dinkys SN. This friend is a blessing and a curse. However I completely understand her stance.
She won't have dinky at hers because she has valuable stuff that can't be locked away and dinky is the hyperactive and destructive type. She won't allow her dd to travel on the bus with dinky as she doesn't want her dd picking up bad habits, which upsets dinky, but is totally fair for the other parent to say, however much it hurts to hear.

OP if the other mum values your friendship she will accept that you can't allow her dd to upset your ds. You have every right to ask her to work out a way to stop that ever happening again (re the 7 hr uncomfortable stay).

Whether the child has SN or not this cant continue for OP's ds's sake and her own and to some extent it needs to be brought up with the other mum so she is aware of the stress it caused as sometimes dealing with a challenging child can mean all your focus is on them and not the situation.

Good luck op

7 hours is key for me.
If you prolong a casual visitation in someone else's house to extend to seven hours, soley to avoid a meltdown, then whatever the circumstances, you should expect that your host will tire of you and be less willing to repeat the experience. If their own child has been made wretched by the visit, then that will be more true still.
The conduct itself is less important...it's the time span over which this event took place that forms my opinion.

When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown

When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home. This has happened before.

Give us a break Fanjo...as much as you are unquestionably right to want and expect understanding and support, we are all of us are entitled to it. When it is time to leave, you leave.
Respect goes both ways, thank you.

The last bit I meant to say to some extent the othe mum herself and her dd as it must have been stressful for them too.

You leave, if the other person has made it clear you are no longer welcome.

If your perception of time and, well everything is thwarted and warped by very stressful circumstances then you need help.

It takes two to tango, and quite possibly, if SN ARE at play, particularly in the area of social communication, the parent is likely to have some difficulty in that area herself.

Inclusion is not just about children.

No...you leave unless the other person actively invites you to stay.

The fact that the Mum is struggling so much is key for me.

I never said she should stay for 7 hours.

Do reread my posts

Perhaps the non-active and general attitude towards the mother was taken as an invitation, particularly if in the mother's experience other parents are more vocal about dismissing her and her dd, and in her experience her dd was actually comparatively well behaved.

People can only use their own experiences as their frames of reference. You cannot expect people to mind read, PARTICULARY mothers who may touch by genetics or just experience on social interaction and communication difficulties.

The utter intolerance of some on this hread to different people and those with much more complicated lifes is alarming. Enjoy your smugness. It will make you narrow-minded and bitter when society falls apart due to your inability to accept.

All I objected to was calling the child a brat and her mother useless.

I agreed a solution needed found and she shouldn't put OP through 7 hours.