to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:19
As far as I can see, it's like this.
You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.
Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.
seems a no-brainer
Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.
I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.
And yes, it was me.
ubik · 14/04/2013 20:24
What do you want? Some fucking pity party?
I worked hard, went to university, had good career - then made redundant, had babies, oh look... no jobs in my industry. oh fuck mortgage needs paying, oh dear DP looks like he is going to die from stress.
Now I am hoping to retrain as a teacher once i have studied enough. I work night shifts in a call centre to pay the bills and any financial help I get with retraining is gratefully received thanks.
MrsHoarder · 14/04/2013 20:26
But the 18 year old could get a graduate-level job at 21 and be working up the career ladder from then. If you graduate at 28-35 (from your ages) then you have 10+ years less of career progression, pension contributions, pay rises etc.
Plus the government doesn't care about your idea of fair. If not going to university at 18 means you never can then there is more pressure to go without necessarily choosing the right course and those who don't go can never hope top get up to a graduate-type job. These jobs usually add more top the economy and increase tax take.
I did go to university at 18 and am now self-funding a post grad degree with a baby in tow. I know which was the easier and more enjoyable experience.
MummyNoName · 14/04/2013 20:27
Went and did half a levels.
Fell in love.
Left a levels, got married. Moved abroad.
Moved back to uk.
Now want to study.
But dc are still v young.
What should I do?
Work pt around dh hours for minimum wage whilst caring for dc?
Get a bit of help and study while dc are young and get a decent job and a decent wage when qualified?
I should be punished forever for a decision made in youth?
Very narrow minded op
mynameisnotmichaelcaine · 14/04/2013 20:28
So, you make your decision as to what career you want for the rest of your life at 18, and then can never change your mind, despite how your life circumstances might change?
I went to uni and then left and started teaching straight out of uni, and have not changed career. I do not resent those that do in the least!
You only get one life, and it's far too short to do a job that doesn't suit your family / you don't enjoy.
IneedAyoniNickname · 14/04/2013 20:29
I've applied for uni at the grand old age of 28, and am currently at college with the government have paid for as I'm a single mum. I want to do something completely different to what I wanted at 18. Mind you, the government aren't directly finding uni (if I get in) but the NHS are.
I couldn't give two shiny shites how you feel about that tbh.
Molehillmountain · 14/04/2013 20:29
No point asking if you don't care, but since you did, I was one who followed the traditional path you did and I certainly don't resent money spent on young parents being funded to do degrees etc.
I think it's good luck to have the foresight, support and maturity to study hard at school and get into university. That doesn't deny that we worked hard, or say it was handed to us on a plate, but most teenagers are only two or three choices or circumstances away from not going forward in education at the prescribed age. And I believe in giving people second chances. I am absolutely certain that in the long run its easier to do a degree and start a career before parenthood and those who do it afterwards get my hugest respect.
Good for you getting your degree, career and family the way you did. It's a shame you feel upset at those who did it differently. Really-do you think you'd swap? I wouldn't-the relatively free and easy days (finances aside) of uni were brilliant. I can't imagine juggling my commitments now with studying.
ThePskettiIncident · 14/04/2013 20:30
Wtf? I didn't get any special privileges. I didn't go at 18 when it would been a grant not a loan I went years later as a mature student and had to take loans- nearly 30,000 pounds.
You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think it was easy, free or even cheaper. I bet I'm paying back more than you at a higher interest.
tiredemma · 14/04/2013 20:31
The department of health paid my tuition fees. I had a student loan that im still paying back. I had to work part time to fund through my degree as dp earnt 'too much ' apparently for me to get any bursary.
Im really not sure of what point you are trying to make? Has something upset you?
antisocialextrovert · 14/04/2013 20:32
My "automatic advantage" when training to be a teacher at 35 was 2 kids with SN. I got no help with child care and completing a 4 year degree in 2 years with 2 kids in tow was pretty ruthless. I also qualified with thousands of pounds worth of debt as the busaries with pretty thin on the ground.
Phineyj · 14/04/2013 20:33
I don't really understand your point. The government funds training/education for one reason and one reason only (sadly) which is because people earning pay tax and add to GDP. In your second two cases, without (re)training the people concerned wouldn't be working at all or would be earning minimum wage/getting tax credits - in both cases probably costing the tax payer e.g. you money. In the second case the govt will also be keen to get that person to work because it may improve outcomes for their child and it also creates a second job for a childcarer.
As regards teaching and midwifery, having children is probably not an advantage. Teacher training is gruelling and midwifery hours aren't very compatible with a young family. Both professions have more qualified staff than vacancies too, at least in some areas.
Also people do not have crystal balls and don't always know what career will suit them at 18/21, and the economy changes. Governments fear 'structural unemployment' when whole industries shed staff and offer retraining to ameliorate the situation. They also have a responsibility to ensure enough teachers, midwives etc.
I presume your post is prompted by irritation at a specific friend or acquaintance whom you feel has it easier than you, however, I am sure there are things about your life they envy.
Molehillmountain · 14/04/2013 20:33
Just read my post again and feel it sounds bloody patronising to those who choose to go a different way about things. Sorry. I don't mean to imply that anyone shoukd go the so say traditional route. Or that it's only people who had kids young that need access to financial support for studying as a mature student.
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:35
I did go to university yes
What's upset me is the fact that two children at my DCs nursery are there completely free of charge, three days a week, same as mine is.
It's free because mother is at college doing some access course to go to university.
Meanwhile we can't have a second DC because ... can't afford the childcare fees.
So yeah, I'm fucked off, and if I've offended you sorry but I am.
And to those who asked, if I had the choice, would I do it differently? Would I choose to have more than one child, stay at home with them then get exactly the same qualifications and job as I would while having to work my fingers to the bone? You bet I would.
MummyNoName · 14/04/2013 20:35
Well, I could argue that if I don't have help with studying fees then I could claim tax credits etc for a long time.
I'm quite happy to pay what is necessary for me to re educate/train/learn etc. but I have a mortgage and dc to feed etc.
Surely, as a whole, it's better to help further educate people who want to rather than pay them benefits for a long time?
I personally think the whole benefit system is wrong (a whole new thread).
But if people want to help themselves, what's wrong with giving them a little help?
I have worked pt and ft since I was 16. I've never been out of work. Neither has my dh. I don't see the harm or the problem in helping out financially people who want to help themselves.
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