to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?

[idontbeeleaveit]

As far as I can see, it's like this.

You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.

Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.

seems a no-brainer

Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.

I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.

And yes, it was me.

[tiredemma]

Is ths going to turn into a benefit bashing thread by smugs again?

[ThePskettiIncident]

Had you even considered that if someone does get a better education they are less likely to need benefits or as much in benefits longer term because their earning potential is increased.

Op you sound narrow minded and bitter. Education is massively important. It gives people ability and confidence that helps them in every way imaginable.

How dreadful that you can't see what a positive thing it is.

[TolliverGroat]

But didn't you say in your OP that you're in your early 30s and went to university at 18 (so around 1998 or so)? So you were, at that point, paying a token £1000 -- surely you don't for one moment imagine that that covered the entire cost of your tuition, or anything like it? The majority of the cost (look at the fees charged to foreign students at the time if you want to see how much) was still being met by the government, aka taxpayers. You didn't feel a moral imperative then to wait and save up until you could pay the full non-subsidised tuition rate.

[AmberLeaf]

Heading that way TiredEmma.

Yawn.

[pansyflimflam]

I never had a chance to even do A levels. I left school at 16 and 3orked for years and did a degree later on. I did get a tiny grant and have loans. I thin you are very lucky that you had the chance to do stuff when you were younger. I did my degree before I had children.

I now have 5 children and I do not have to work because I have worked so fucking hard all my life I am OK financially now. I know I am in an enviable position but I have been as poor as anything. I had to work at 16 because my parents had no money and I had to contribute. Really happy now that the vast amounts of tax DH and I pay are going to help other people access education, he too had a bad start and is a post grad and at Director level, none of which would have happened without education.

So it is a fuck off and stop whining and count your blessings from me. You have no idea why people are where they are, and even if you think you have half a picture about their lives you are just stamping your feet because you cannot get your own way. Says a lot moire about you than the poeple you are complaining about.

[MiniTheMinx]

OP, you sound like a very bitter and unpleasant person.

For those of you who would like to take a degree through the OU, you can still get funding and the student loan does not have to be paid back until you are earning more than £22,000

So don't let costs put you off

www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/ways-to-pay/england.htm

OP, if you can't afford a second child and child care why not take a break, downsize your house, sell it and buy a yurt or something.

[SemiDetached]

What are you talking about?

[MummyNoName]

You've just made my point op.

If you claim tax credits you can't afford dc.... I'm not going there, whole new can of worms.

Anyone who claims tax credits, should they want to better themselves, learn, educate and re train themselves etc in your eyes they can't afford dc. How can they afford education?

[AvrilPoisson]

I am confused.

You are angry at the government because they won't fund you to have more children.

You are unhappy because people who are poorly educated get funding (solely) for access courses so they can improve their lot, and that of their children, thus reducing the burden on the welfare state.

You are sad because you don't see the child you currently have enough (understandable).

You want to have another child, that you will then also not see enough because you will have to put them into childcare (that you want the government to fund), so now you will be doubly sad.

Before having a second child you and your DH only just afford mortgage, bills, expenses.

You sound very unhappy- I suggest you appraise your life and lifestyle, and decide what it is you'd like to prioritise, and work towards that goal instead of getting angry on the interweb- far more productive. If you can't afford your mortgage, maybe a move to a less expensive area would be possible, and that might allow budget for another child?

[tiredemma]

I suspected when someone referred to '18 year olds sat on arses for 5 years'.

Yawn yawn indeed

[lougle]

"no personal judgement there either, though I appreciate it sounds like that."

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck...

[idontbeeleaveit]

pansy actually, I'm not "fucking whining" I am pointing out that things are as they stand, UNFAIR.

tolliver fair enough. Although I do think I've paid enough tax by now to pay it back

[starsandunicorns]

Sadly Triedemma its seems its going to go that way

Op I know a good few lp that did degrees though I feel you would what them to wallow in min wage jobs and be grateful they went to college then went to uni they worked hard are all in work

[gordyslovesheep]

I think it's unfair that I want a pony and other people have ponies and I can't afford one ...but that is life

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

I'm interested in how having a child 'gives you an automatic advantage' in applying for teacher training.

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Do you object to funding for mature students full stop? Because it is costing the government a huge amount for me to train as a social worker - but I will repay that sum in tax within 5 years of qualifying and I will then work for another 25-30 years paying tax and also being a (very good if I may say so) social worker, thereby being useful to society. Do you think the only people who should train as social workers are 18 year old school leavers god help us ?

[AvrilPoisson]

If a 6yo was standing in front of me saying "it's unfair", I think I'd consider them to be "fucking whining" tbh.

I seriously doubt you've paid enough tax into the system to cover your outgoings yet, considering you're in your early 30s, had a child, and a 'free' education, and you don't sound like you're a HRT payer.

[MiniTheMinx]

I have always fancied taking the children round the world for a few years, can't afford it, its soooooo unfair.

Now you greedy lot of strivers studying to get on in life, hand over the free child care. ooops......that won't pay for my trip

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Although I do think I've paid enough tax by now to pay it back
You could apply that logic to the majority of mature students really.

[idontbeeleaveit]

And, I'm not actually that unhappy. Life's OK - could be better. Rough patch just now but will get through it.

I have an acquaintance, the one I mentioned upthread who has dcs are at my dds nursery. And she is studying three days a week which enables her dcs to go to nursery fully paid for and while she isn't rich, on benefits, she certainly isn't sitting in a dark room eating value baked beans cold either. Actually - scratch that. Sorry but it's every stereotype going. Manicured nails? Tick. Fags? Tick. 3 bed council house? Tick.

Yes, OK, people didn't want it to be a benefit bashing thread. But it's difficult when you SEE it every day. And I made the mistake of having a mini rant about my work the other day. Bright suggestion on her part was to do as she did. And I drove away crying because I felt like a twat for having worked and tried and believed if I did what I was told my life would be better because even though on some level I know that it wouldn't be when you've got someone in front of you showing you the opposite, it hurts, in a way I can't fully explain

but I reacted emotionally

and I conclude, that I am indeed BU and I should fuck off. And I will. With wine.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

I actually am speechless.

And that never happens.

Don't you think the mature students have to pay the loans back just the same as you did?

[idontbeeleaveit]

just to catch up on last few posts, no I don't want LP to stay in mw jobs, I am BU and I am a twat. just a sad twat at the moment who is bitter and twisted and turning into a grouchy old woman which I don't want to.

[AvrilPoisson]

youreallabunchofbastards Come on, you know teachers are only babysitters- anyone who's had a child can do that, can't they?

I mean, people like Ehric never have to remove children from parents, now do they...?

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Anyway OP you are arguing against a strawman because most mature students don't get the kind of funding you imagine. Apart from me