to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?

[idontbeeleaveit]

As far as I can see, it's like this.

You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.

Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.

seems a no-brainer

Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.

I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.

And yes, it was me.

Sorry to hear that pip

Hope you manage to get something sorted. X

Wow, this is my third in a week!!

But this post really takes the . Unpleasant op.

Hope you choke on it

Another person here who is wondering if the OP is living in a dream world...

Quite a few of my friends are the 'had babies at 18, worked a bit then had a career change' and yes are training to be teacher or nursing / midwifery...

They will all come out with THOUSANDS of pounds worth of debt and they all have children so they have also made pretty huge compromises on the time they can spend with their children.... the 2 professions you mention involve practice placements where study must be done on top and in the case of nursing / midwifery there is no long summer break either.

And then there is me...

I was a midwife, my son has SEN and I need a career change... I had paid for my course and taken an £11k per annum (pro rata) wage drop in order to facilitate this... wouldnt expect anything else and I don't feel I am being treated inequitably either.

get angry at the government, not people who had a different path through life than you.

bleat bleat, someone got something I didn't, bleat bleat.

I'll tell you what I'm bitter about shall I?

I did fabulously well in my GCSEs, As and A*s. I went to open days at Cambridge and Oxford. I was going to be the first in my family to get a degree.

Then my mum's mental health got worse, she kicked me out and so I ended up homeless two months into starting my AS levels. My grandad developed dementia and went downhill rapidly. I spent months fighting social services and the Job Centre who wanted me to quit school as it would make their lives easier. I couldn't afford to eat properly and caught every cold and virus going round, I had no internet access and had to spend two hours twice a day just to get to school via public transport.

In the end I scraped two A-levels at grade C and two AS levels (a C and B). That was the end of my university dream.

I had to get a job once I finished sixth form, spent some time temping then landed (through hard work) a decent(ish) job with a bank. I'm still there five years later. Married dp and had ds because why not? Uni was out of the picture anyway.

Then last year I discovered you could now get a student loan for study at the Open University. This year I've discovered that actually, as a mature student, a brick university may accept me now.

I have today made enquiries at a couple of unis for a September 2014 start and am hoping that 120 credits at the OU will mean I can get accepted to do French, which was what I wanted to do as a teenager.

If I get accepted by a brick uni, I will need to reduce my hours at work and as dh is also studying at the moment, every penny will help.

I am so angry about the wasted opportunity I had as a teenager, through no fault of my own but I am grateful that I may be able to get help to study what I want now. (fingers crossed of course!)

And you can be sure that as an adult with my life experiences, I will study a damn sight harder than I ever would have done as a teenager before all the shit happened. I am so grateful for any opportunity to learn now, whereas I took it for granted before.

What a load of crap! I'm a 2nd year student nurse. I started my training when I was 34. I did an access course all paid for by myself and have never received any benefits. I get £550 a month bursary from the NHS and I bloody deserve it cause you know what? Training to be a nurse or midwife is fucking hard.

Uni is hard work with a lot to learn and assignments. Then the other half is spent on placement when you are working full time hours on ward where they are understaffed and mentors don't have time to teach you properly. You are often counted in numbers or treated as an HCA. We are slated constantly in the daily fail and told we don't care.

But you know what I love my job and wish I had done it when I was 18. But I left school where I had been constantly bullied with no self confidence and no GCSE's so retook them at college and it wasn't until I spent years in the workplace that I gained confidence and financial stability to go and persue job I had wanted to do since I was 4.

Oh and btw I don't have kids as I have been ttc since I was 27 and you will be funding my fertility treatment shortly too. So thanks

Intheframe why on earth are you resentful that you have been funded to improve yourself

Because I was bloody improving myself before in work! I was doing 3 jobs at 50 hours of work useful to society.
I went to Uni because work didn't pay.
Now I will get a good degree but in a non subject I won't use and if I don't earn £15,000 I've had a lovely 3 years.
However now I will just go back to being poor and working hard I expect.

Sorry awful grammar. Angry typing

So when people moan that teachers haven't worked in the real world.....I trained through an apprenticeship, but following birth of DS2 his health meant I could no longer work, when he did get well enough that I could return to the work place I decided to follow with my much earlier dream of teaching and had to retrain - bugger me though I am now one of those teachers you can't moan about because I do know what 'real life' is like

StickEmWithThePointyEnd

I left college (top five in the country) after being sexually assaulted by another student. I had a complete breakdown that took almost a decade to get over.

I have this week, been accepted to do the degree I would have applied for over a decade ago. I start Sept 2013. Its never to late. Good luck with your application.

There are pros and cons to having children and/or going to university at any age.

A lot of people without kids don't work that hard at university, either on their studies or in taking on paid employment alongside their studies. Many people in their early twenties are not all working hard to save up for the childcare for their future kids. They're working hard to go on holidays, go out to restaurants, go drinking etc.

There's little point moaning about other people's life choices.

what do the govt fund?

i'd love to change career - but i can't i can't afford to just stop working and become a social worker, teacher or nurse.

I looked into doing an Access course recently and as I understand it, the govt don't fund them for people on low incomes any more - they're expected to take out a loan. The repayment terms are similar to HE courses so it means that you don't have to pay anything upfront or repay until you're earning enough - but it's not as good as it used to be when you used to be able to pay just an admin fee (about £30) to register and then have your tuition fees paid.

I'm lucky that I did do an Access course when it was free, but I am looking into changing direction again and I'm not sure I'd want to take on another loan (still have previous outstanding student loans to pay off).

I started a degree when I was 18, but had a child when I was 19 then continued with my course. There was quite a lot of support to pay for my studies then - childcare bursaries, additional grants etc. I think a lot of the help is still available, but it definitely wasn't easy to study and look after a child at the same time.

Over the years, I have gone on to work and then re-train, with various bursaries/support. Some of the support was down to my academic performance, so not really related to being a single parent at all. And some courses were paid for by my DP at the time, or paid for by savings and charitable trusts. It takes a lot of determination to look for funding opportunities for education, and government support is being reduced, but you have to think creatively about how to find it.

I kind of agree with op but the fault lies with the govt. I wouldn't blame anyone for getting funding if they could.
I'm sure when she's finished uni and working she will be in the same position as you.

I don't think they fund anything really these days custy.

they part-fund SW, but it sounds as though it's only 1/3rd of fees.

You can do GTP in a school, and get paid as a TA, but still not very much (c £14k)
Or some LAs will pay SW Assistants to train as SWs, and pay, but this seems to have stopped in most places at present.

jeez...how entitled are you?

I have retrained in teaching at the age of 40 (ahem). I got the first job I applied for - everyone else at the interview was 22, yes. I didn't get the job because I have children. I got it because I have a ton of relevant work experience behind me and I was able to demonstrate 'transferable skills' which made me far more attractive to the head and governors than the 22 year old just out of college who's got very little life experience (and yes, that's what they said). And I am pretty good at the job. Oh, and of course, they get the benefit of all that experience but they get to pay me the same as they would if I were 22.

I got very generous bursaries whilst training cos I trained in a shortage area. I am also a single parent so 80% of my childcare was paid for. I also have loans to the value of £15k - that was for one year's training. I went to university at 18, didn't have children till well into my 30s and then my (now ex) dh walked out...so I had to re-think my options. My previous career was no longer suitable. So I made a change. Perhaps you'd be happier if I'd sat on benefits for a few years and fulfilled your stereotypes?

Life tends to be what you make it. So go out and make a life and stop moaning about it.

op my advise to you is to avoid people who have had very different lives/backgrounds. The moment your conversation with this woman highlighted the fact that your histories/lifestyles are very different you should have politely ended it and moved on.

Surround yourself with people from similar backgrounds/life pathways as your own. Then you won't become bitter (or smug) about how your own life has turned out.

Stay away from the 'poor single mother students' as well as the 'married to rich husbands sahms' and talk only to people like yourself.

If you can't afford a second child maybe you could look at doing some drastic downsizing/life restructuring so you can. Get a lodger? Rent out your home and rent a one bedroom flat/bedsit? Get rid of your car? Get a second job? Reduce your budget for 6months so you are paying only for basic necessities?

Not sure where I fit in to your neat little pigeon holes.

But I had a baby, well, I was pregnant at 16. I left school with my GCSE's. Took 6 months out, had a baby, went back to college at 17. Then went to uni after my A Levels. Yes, to train as a midwife having a baby does not give you a fucking advantage here, believe me.

You can have it all, but you have to work fucking hard and not have another child for a long time.

I'm 11 years down the line, own home, career, just had second baby.

Life is a game of chance, you take your chances whatever route you take. Be it planned or not.

I had my baby, and planned to pull myself up as high as I could. I don't think any which way you do it is easy. At all.

Just read your post at the end of the first page - I couldn't have done the above with a second child. My childcare fees were not paid for, except while I was doing A Levels - and that was because I was under 19 and of 6th form age. At uni I funded my childcare fees £650 a month myself by working 16 + hours a week on top of a full time 37.5 hour week at uni/placement, plus study, and having a toddler.

I worked fucking hard by the way.

Another mature student turned midwife here, OP do you honestly think I'd have chosen to do a full time degree with a 2 year old, putting off having a second child order to qualify, when I could have done it straight from school still not paid any fees and not had any of the associated costs of bringing up a child as well as the headache of organising round the clock childcare and emergency cover? No, but life isn't always the easiest, you don't always get the smoothest path. I don't know about now but the DOH funded midwifery students no matter their age, same for nursing, so your argument kinda falls flat there. You just weren't savvy enough to pick a career where funding was available from the outset. Mind it was only tuition fees covered and a small bursary, but since I was working a 37.5 hour week doing shifts as an unpaid skivvy on the wards student midwife, as well as getting a bloody good degree I can hand on heart say I earned it. Many hospitals would fall apart without their student workforce. Oh and the 16 hours per week I had to work in a pub on top of all that was just the super fun icing on the cake, because the 37.5 hours don't count as work nooo, you had to do 16 hours on top of that to be entitled to tax credit and therefore childcare help.

Your original post is unreasonable and you've acknowledged that. But life is obviously really hard for you at the moment and not what you expected and so a little disappointing. It's a bit rough to call you entitled when there are much worse offenders. You've worked hard and are not seeing the rewards you hoped for. Some people will have worked harder for less and others had it much easier. we can all resent someone on this basis.

Eric I am doing BA social work degree, we have to pay our own fees. We do get a bursary though. Luckily I am at the end of my degree so didn't get stung with 9k a year fees, I think my loan will be in total around 19k to pay back. Also agree having only 18 year olds allowed to train as social workers is a scary thought!

I don't get help with childcare through uni, and even if I did it works the same as tax credits, so only up to 70% based on income. I am working two part time jobs along with my full time degree so I do qualify for childcare through TC, which is just what I would be claiming if I was only working my close to NMW jobs. Only once I qualify and get a job, my claim will reduce to next to nothing, which surely is a good thing?

Waves at HolidayArmadillo! Looks like we did the same thing....!

and I'm so bloody glad I don't have to do it all again!

I am 34. I have 4 DC. In September last year I started a midwifery degree. I receive a fixed amount grant, bursary to help with living xosts (income dependent) and my fees paid by the NHS.

My colleague is 18 and started the course at the same time straight after A levels. She receives exactly the same financial package.

It's not just the mature students that receive financial assistance. All nursing, midwifery and allied health professions are entitled to the same funding.

Your point is non-existant.

Bloody hell how many MWs are there on here? :)