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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?

167 replies

idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:19

As far as I can see, it's like this.

You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.

Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.

seems a no-brainer Hmm

Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.

I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.

And yes, it was me.

OP posts:
AvrilPoisson · 14/04/2013 20:35

And- mature students have to get loans to fund their courses too, unless they come from wealthy families. Hmm

kinkyfuckery · 14/04/2013 20:36

You are absolutely right. Anyone who I've ever known to change career at any point had a baby at 18. Then they spent the next five years plus sitting on their arses in their council house. Then, they didn't even have to work hard for their qualification, they just got it handed to them for nowt! Fucking Government!

noisytoys · 14/04/2013 20:36

Study for mature students is charged at the same rate as study for 18 year olds. Even the Open University charge £15,000 for a degree. Funding for study has been cut, like everything else.

LaurieFairyCake · 14/04/2013 20:37

I also don't understand Confused

Both scenarios got the same funding and same outcome?

TolliverGroat · 14/04/2013 20:37

So you got your fees paid for you, then, OP (unlike today's students (18yo or mature))?

Why didn't you wait until you could pay the full cost of your tuition rather than letting the government pay it for you? Or does the whole "make decisions based on whether or not you can afford it, not the government" only apply to Other People?

IneedAyoniNickname · 14/04/2013 20:37

Also, having your own child does not give you an advantage when applying for midwifery! I wish it did.

Original poster
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:38

But if people want to help themselves, what's wrong with giving them a little help?

Fair enough.

And no I'm not saying people should stay in the same career all their lives but I am saying if the career they want involves some sort of further training they need to fund that themselves and that includes childcare costs for DCs if they have them.

OP posts:
AvrilPoisson · 14/04/2013 20:38

But you're a graduate? You've had years to get that mythical graduate level job, earn fuck loads of money, and have as many children as you like because you can afford childcare, no?

tiredemma · 14/04/2013 20:38

What a sweeping generalisation about mature students.

Molehillmountain · 14/04/2013 20:39

I did a pgce straight after uni and there were three students in my group who were mature students by which I mean had done other stuff before retraining. They were far more dedicated than those of us who had gone straight in. They brought a wealth of experience and knowledge, bith practical life stuff and about how to do a job/have a Career. And I only know now how much the already parents on The course had to give up and juggle to do it.

The more I think about it the more riled I am by the op.

Original poster
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:39

Tolliver no, didn't get fees paid for me - tuition fees were alive and kicking the year I went.

Besides, it's the government I'm pissed off with rather than individuals.

OP posts:
starsandunicorns · 14/04/2013 20:40

What the people who join the forces at say 17 yrs old serves their country gets married becomes a sahm but marriage falls apart becomes a lp but goes to universty instead of claiming benfits
( only counicel tax claimed) to help them selves gain new skills to provide for there children.

AvrilPoisson · 14/04/2013 20:40

Aw- yes, fees of £1000. A bit different from £9k though, isn't it?
Did you take a student loan to fund those fees then? At an extremely preferential rate?

Today's 18yo haven't got a chance of having children and homes by their early 30s- it's them you should be scared for, and pity.

Original poster
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:41

Avril as I'm sure you know even a well paid graduate job (which mine is actually) gets swallowed up quickly by mortgage, bills, childcare costs and the like.

It also makes me unhappy that I see so little of dc but no part time option and both of us have to work else we're stuffed. so yes, I do think I made the wrong choices but I think it's wrong that those choices are wrong.

I know what I mean.

OP posts:
Original poster
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:41

and avril do you not think I worry hugely about the future for my own dc?

OP posts:
BeyondIsBloodOfTheDragon · 14/04/2013 20:42

I actually think that very few people are mature enough to adequately decide what they want to do for the rest of their life at 18 (technically 16 as it includes alevel choices, or 15 when you make those choices...). But hey ho, thats not really relevant Grin

I am a "mature" (how dare they, I'm 27!) student. Please direct me to these people who are willing to pay my fees and give grants and childcare, they would really come in handy. TIA :)

BadgersNadgers · 14/04/2013 20:42

How about if your father is seriously ill and loses his job so you have to survive on your Mother's wages as a cleaner then, when you're fourteen, he dies and you lose the will to try hard at school because you are in mourning. What if, because of this, you end up leaving school with 2 O levels and work a series of dull jobs for twenty five years whilst bringing up your children and encoraging them to study? Is it so wrong to go out get a couple of A levels and a degree (1st class hons) then teach for the next twenty years and be so good at your job that you come out of retirement three times because your boss begs you? Is that a waste?

How about if you are made to do an apprenticeship by your abusive father and end up a manual labourer for twenty years until work dries up and the only job you can get is fruit picking? How about if you've a young family to support and the only way out of a situation where you eat jam sandwiches for Sunday dinner because you cannot afford anything else is to get a degree so you can get a decent job? Is that wrong in your world?

In mine it's something to be proud of.

MummyNoName · 14/04/2013 20:42

But my point is op....

I have dc. I have a mortgage. I can afford them.

I can't afford fully to re educate myself.

Shall I claim tax credits for another 15 years or get help so I can do something useful in my career and not have to claim any benefits (or very little)?

BeyondIsBloodOfTheDragon · 14/04/2013 20:43

That should be a Wink rather than a slightly PA looking :)

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 14/04/2013 20:45
Confused I don't think these amazing grants and bursaries really exist, do they? Childcare funding for students is hard to get. You have to be studying for an eligible course and have almost no income. I get it because I'm studying social work and am a single parent. I don't think it's easy at all to get funded to study as an adult. Afaik you can get a student loan for an undergrad degree as long as you don't have one already but that's about it. Masters degrees (unless it's social work or similar) are completely unfunded.
Sharptic · 14/04/2013 20:45

As someone who is starting college this year as a mature student, I'll be taking a student loan to pay for the course as funding has been cut.

If I'm lucky enough to gain a place at University, I'll again need a student loan.

The only advantage I think for me is that there maybe help with childcare, I hope so because I'm stuffed if not!

And I won't be doing midwifery or teaching.

I think there maybe more flexibility and choice for women to retrain after having children now than there has ever been. Childcare is more available and we are working longer so more reason to retrain.

Still hard work and expensive though

AmberLeaf · 14/04/2013 20:45

Besides, it's the government I'm pissed off with rather than individuals

Write a post slagging them off then not the individuals who have to take this path in the absence of a time machine.

But tbh its not the gov you are pissed off at. It is the individuals because it is them you resent.

Why can't you afford another child? Maybe you're not working hard enough? Maybe you're not as fab as you think. Or maybe you picked a shit degree and that's why you don't earn enough to pay for more than one lot of childcare fees?

Easy to judge isn't it.

Dolallytats · 14/04/2013 20:45

I wanted to go to uni (well, OU as I'm agoraphobic!!) and can't afford it unless I take out loans that I can't afford to pay back-so I'm not doing it. You don't get it handed on a plate just because you're pushing 40.

Original poster
idontbeeleaveit · 14/04/2013 20:47

at the risk of sounding horrifically rude I would dispute being able to afford dc if you can't afford them without tax credits.

no personal judgement there either, though I appreciate it sounds like that.

I disagree with providing large sums of money for childcare and other expenses for further study.

OP posts:
MummyNoName · 14/04/2013 20:49

I'm right with you op as a whole.

People who work hard for a living should be rewarded.

As it stands, people who cba working are v often rewarded.

But there are so many different situations there can be you can't make a sweeping generalisation of a population. Everyone's situation is different.

Free prescriptions, free dental and optical tests, council tax benefit, housing benefit, everyone seems to have a qashqai etc etc. (not me btw)

But I would prefer to have no benefits and be independent than live off anyone. That's the purpose of help with educational costs.

Surely?