to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?

[idontbeeleaveit]

As far as I can see, it's like this.

You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.

Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.

seems a no-brainer

Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.

I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.

And yes, it was me.

Manis, fags, and a 3-bed council house? BINGO!

I win.

yawn.

ha! Ha!

When I was 18 you could piss about in the sixth form and provided you got 3 Cs at A-level you could do to uni and get grant and fees paid for 3/4 years at a second rate poly. Often they came out with a third in shit studies.

An equally thick 18 year old can now rack up 60k of debt studying Shit Studies at crap uni in 2013. There is no prospect that they will ever earn enough to pay of their debt.

I don't understand what you have against mature students. People have all kinds of reasons for studying later in life. 20 years ago the mature students worked really hard and greatly enchanced the degree course I did. Often they had industry experience which ivory tower academics didn't have.

Wow idontbeeleaveit your op describes me to a T, except for that whole government funding, bursaries and free childcare.

I didn't go to university at 18, but worked instead. Got married, had children (25 not 18 though) and after 2 redundancies decided I wanted a change of career.

I am currently re-training to be a teacher but have to fund it myself, taking out student loans just like everyone else. Only I have to work full time to fund it and pay for childcare. And guess what I don't see my children very much because I study part time after work. Would love to know where this mythical government funding is.

So isn't it unfair that my family were a actually so skint that there was no option for me to even stay at school?

That is not fucking fair either, it is swings and roundabouts. You are winging because you cannot have what you want. Wait until you eldest goes to school and then fees are less but comparing yourself to someone you know nothing about will only make you seem unpleasant and resentful which clearly you are Amazing you want to be rewarded again for having the privilege of being well off enough (in every sense) to have been to university. Entitlement? much?

Ehric- tbh I think all medical personnel, SWs, teachers should have their fees paid for by the govt, provided that they do a number of years in public service afterwards (e.g. 10 years- plucked from air, no calculations involved!)

I think it's pretty outrageous that someone such as a teacher or SW, who let's face it are only doing their job for the benefit for the whole of society, should have to beggar themselves for the next 30 years to do so. It's shameful.

You sound very unhappy OP. What's really up. Life is hard, its pretty shit for many people at the moment.

Good point and well made Avril

Wondering about these mythical bursaries and childcare funds. I got lucky and was fine of the last years to go to uni before fees, but I still had all my accommodation and living costs, so I worked and saved whilst I did my a levels.

Then I actually got preg and had ds1 whilst at uni, so had to support him, took a year out and was not eligible for any benefits at all. Thankfully dp carried on at uni but also got a job and worked to support us. Then when I went back to complete my degree I got the usual student loans etc.

When I finished my degree with a toddler in tow I was offered a place to do an MA but as I wanted to do it part time the bank said they wouldn't continue my student account and they wanted my overdraft paid back in full. If I got a job they would let me keep my student account and overdraft but studying an MA and looking after my son they wouldn't let me keep it and there were no bursaries or childcare fees paid for me at any point.

I am thinking about doing some extra training now and again no bursaries or free childcare. So I will wait til my youngest gets her 15hrs free and then do an online course, paid for by myself.

And I think its fair enough that some areas have reduced fees/support of bursaries is health care/teaching etc given you aren't going to be essarily be a high earner once you qualify.

And I think childcare help is good actually for those that have children but want to try and refrain and support themselves and their children. Or would you rather they worked a minimum wage job for the rest of their lives?!

With the Op on this but different reasons.

i have just had an amazing 3 years at Uni. Rent free, Council tax free, £3,000 paid 3 times a year plus tax credits each week oh and a nice £300 bursary 3 times a year. free school lunch's etc etc. All this for 12 hours at Uni a week

I'm upset because I worked bloody hard after having DS with two jobs and a self employed job at the weekends.In the end I couldn't afford to run a car and had to leave work. Which is when I applied to Uni through clearing.

It's not actually fair that work doesn't "pay" as well as being a student.

My DS is about to graduate. He's been accepted into another degree, which is what he really wants to do. He'll be 23 when he starts. Could someone please tell me where all these grants and bursaries are please?

Social work is funded at present but probably not for long. You get £3800 per year towards fees (masters, not sure about BA) plus a bursary for living costs. I get the extra bit for being poor/a parent and I also get benefits. I get loads :) but as I say I believe that to be a sound investment on the part of the government and see no issue with it. To be honest, I think higher edu action benefits all of us, even if it's something pointless like philosophy. Being educated is good for us as individuals and as a whole. If we as a society refuse to fund people's education then we will be much poorer, as only the wealthy will be able to improve their minds.

FWIW, the mature students I teach work their arses off and really, really want to be there. Not that a lot of the younger ones don't, but it's really noticeable in the mature students and they deserve every penny they get, I think.

and while she isn't rich, on benefits, she certainly isn't sitting in a dark room eating value baked beans cold either

Do you think she should be sat in the dark eating beans then?

Well said whokilleddannylatimer

Intheframe why on earth are you resentful that you have been funded to improve yourself and your employability? University is a short period of time and over your lifetime you will be worth more to society as a graduate than not (unless you don't actually get a job obviously!) education is an investment. I don't believe it should be free to all, or funded indiscriminately, but some courses and some individuals should be funded.

Okay, so you are annoyed that your acquaintance is getting childcare help so she can study, but when you did your degree you had no DC? Hmm that doesn't make sense. I could understand if you'd struggled through a degree with no childcare help. Or if she had walked into a wonderful job post degree, but it sounds like that's a long way off if she's only at the access course stage.

Let's leave her out of it. So you want a second DC and not to work so much -- is there any way to make that happen, realistically - cut down on expenses, move area, emigrate even? Can you make a plan for the next few years to work towards? Will things seem less hopeless when the 3 year funding kicks in/DC is at school?

IMO kids are increasingly being locked in too early, these days you have to get the right GCSE marks to choose the right A levels, have to do well with those - slip up once on that treadmill for whatever reason, and there doesn't seem to be a 2nd chance saloon. And these kids are 15-18, how are they supposed to get everything right?

Also, quite often nowadays what you train for doesn't exist a few decades later so you have to retrain.

I think it's very important for people as they mature to have a 2nd chance

Ineed yeah that's what I said isn't it

I am BU

I have acknowledged this.

But carry on I actually don't care any more.

freddie look up the Dictionary of Grant Making Trusts and look for ones that support individuals in your son's area of study. There are also sometimes bursaries for locals e.g. for Kent students studying in Kent. Then rack your brains for any family connections with certain trades gofs.co.uk/dynamicpage.aspx?id=46, masons etc. Failing that, do Career Development Loans still exist?

I truly don't mean to bash you op.

You just need a bit if perspective

I'm enjoying my wine, hope you are too

I'd love to retrain as a midwife. Doing the kind of hours student midwives do as part of their degree would be almost impossible with small children. I would need a live in nanny!

I do see what you're getting at but afaik the kind of funding you are describing doesn't exist. I think you must have to be on a very very low household income to qualify for anything. In which case I think you should be entitled to help in retraining and an opportunity to escape the poverty trap that many families get caught in.

I didn't go to Uni (or even 6th form), because I fractured my skull at 16.

I have spent the past 7 yrs completing an OU degree, which did not get any government funding, at the same time as holding down a full time job, raising a family, paying a mortgage, etc. Ideally I would have done it straight from school, but I have had a long recovery in the meantime.

However ... I did detect some stress from my parents at the prospect of trying to put a second child through Uni.

I went to uni at 18, got a good job, worked hard, had no debts, eventually had children and then it went a bit pear-shaped.
I couldn't afford to continue with my career, I couldn't afford the childcare or the commute. So I took a break.
My job, my company, most of my industry disappeared in that time. There are simply no jobs in the profession that I used to work in, in my part of the country. So now I need to career change.

There is no help at all. Not a bean. Because I already have a degree.

Good for you, having the opportunities at a young and 'correct' age.

I also have worked hard but I could not go to college, due to having an arse of a father and a not terribly stonrg emotionally mother. Father refused to pay maintainance for me to continue my education. Mum was not strong enough to fight it in court, as would have had to be done at the time. So I gave up, did a YTS in a job I love and have worked in the same job for most of my adult life. I have had three children along the way.

I have got and NVQ and loads of experience and in September, at the grand old age of 46, will be starting at uni to get my degree.

How is that wrong?