to disagree with the government funding 'career changers' and mature students?

[idontbeeleaveit]

As far as I can see, it's like this.

You do your A levels aged 18, work very hard and get good grades. You go on to university. You incur a lot of debt in order to do so, as well as working throughout your studies. You then (if you're lucky) get a graduate level job when you've left and spend the next ten years paying it off. When you're in your early 30s you have a baby but have to go back to work to pay the mortgage.

Or, at the age of 18, you have a child. You spend three/four years with the child at home and then decide to concentrate on your career once DC is at school. The government provide you with bursaries, funding and childcare fees allowing you to do so. If you're one of the lucky ones, you get a graduate level job when you've finished.

seems a no-brainer

Or there's the person who works for a while, has a baby then decides to retrain, often but not always as either a teacher or a midwife because having their own child gives them an automatic advantage.

I'm sure I'll be told to fuck off and I don't care to be honest but at least tell me why, because as far as I can see that 18 year old who worked hard and did well in her A levels was a fool.

And yes, it was me.

Sorry a bit punchy as I've just finished a 3000 word assignment, have another 2000 words due in 2 weeks and am out in practice 2 days after that. I really object to anyone suggesting I have it easy. I love what I do and I appreciate how lucky I am to be where I am but it isn't easy.

What about (and this is someone I used to work with) you work hard at A Levels, have an unplanned dc, pass A Levels, go to uni to study medicine, juggle 100hour weeks, with child care, parents evenings etc.

It was 1990s so Jr doctors practically lived at the hospital.

Or leave school with A Levels (me) work and study at the same time for 4 years to get a qualification in a career I loved.

Age 26 get arthritis that stops me doing the job I love, try other jobs and go to uni early 30s to study part time for 7 years to get a degree.

Are these two examples less worthy than you?

In my opinion it comes down to life choices at the end of the day. If your life choice is to have a family early on and then retrain later on then you're just as entitled to the same opportunities and someone who does it the other way round.

I retrained in my 30s and i funded it myself.

What about those of us who flunked at school and not through lack of trying. The "thick" kids like me who ended up in sink estate schools and no matter how hard we tried rarely achieved.

I HAD no option but to leave school at 16. Not just because I was too "thick" for A levels but also because my family needed any income going to keep a roof over our heads. Literally the day after I turned 16 I started work. Shit menial basic low level unrewarding low paid shitty work.

I can tell you that by the time I was 16yo and 3 months I realised that this was all that lay ahead of me all my adult life unless I changed something but because I was seen by the kids that stayed on for A levels and alot of other people of society and as low grade scum and having been told all of my school life I was an low achiever/below average person I just believe this was it, this was my lot in life.

I was trapped in that life until I got married and had kids. I could not return to work because DD1 had been born with medical condition that meant I pretty much lived in a hospital - no employer was going to tolerate my much needed regular absence.

I was a SAHM for many years skint to buggery, nursery not an option until the free places kicked in because food came before most things. I could not even afford a blouse and skirt for a job interview.

So yeah in my early 30's I realised I was actually an OK person. I was a good mum and not a peice of total thick shit I had always believed. It took me 17 years to have the confidence to attempt to try studying. So off to college (not Uni - still dont belive I could do that and even if I did we cannot afford it) I went to re train or perhaps I should rephrase that to TRAIN in something so I didnt have to be a cleaner, a dishwasher etc etc.

I still dont have a degree, I am still not clever enough to do it but I now have skills and qualifications that have helped me back to work doing a job I actually enjoy and with some prospects too. Part of the reason I waited so long was lack of confidence but the main reason was money. When we moved to Wales with DHs job I could go to full time college for free ( as a all full time courses here are free - at tax payers expense), so yep I went and took full advantage. I did 2 different course over 2 years. Its changed my life and my families life.

Dont assume because you had a good enough and nice enough start in life to do things "the proper way" that everyones life starts quite as jolly and simply. I had no belief at age 16 to think I could even go to college to train in anything, school and my childhood had led me to believe I was a failiure and thats what I went into the world believing.

You have no idea how lucky you are.

Just something as basic as having the chance to stay on for A levels/further education does not even register with you as a privelidge or a luxury that is not even open for some, no matter what they want to strive for!!!

YABU

JambalayaCodfishPie CONGRATULATIONS!

OP ---> would rant more but must dash to work!

well i just started an access course, the rest of the time I sit on my arse and watch JK, annd the government pay me and pay all my childcare. Oh wait a minute, I do my access around my job n the hospital, I pay for it out of my wages and guess how I pay for the childcare, oh yes also out of my wages. I am doing this because I want to be a midiwfe, this will be the 3rd time I have applied as it is one of the hardest courses to get on (1400 applicants this year for 50 places at my local uni). In my access course I am doing 48 level 3 units, I need 45 distinctions so I get just a merit in one unit and I have thrown away well over a thousand pounds and a hell of a lot of time. I am working very hard to do what I want to do, how is that different to what you did at 18?

Plenty of people in my generation worked hard at school, got a good degree and now find that technology and the marked have changed so much that they can no longer work in their original field, because their original field simply isn't there any longer. What they have is plenty of life experience, experience of studying at higher levels, proven ability to work hard and manage responsibility. All they need is somewhere to do it.

So what are we supposed to do with these people? Keep them on the dole forever after? Or use their skills and intelligence in a different field after a little training?

If anything is unfair it's the case of my dh: lazy as they come at school and flunked his exams. But as he came from a well regarded private school and made a good impression in interview, UCL agreed to take him anyway and he went to university at 18.

Contrast that with my friend who was trapped in a marriage with an abusive man from her teens because she was desperate to get away from her equally unpleasant parents. And who went to university as a middle-aged woman after making a new life for herself, paying her fees as mature students do, and eventually getting a brilliant postgraduate degree.

Now which of these two do you think is the most deserving?

Oh yes what an utter waste of money .
You do realize OP that today's mature students are yesterday's and tomorrow's tax payers!
I'm (hopefully) about to undertake a p/t time degree (all paid for, am in Scotland you see ). I will continue working/paying taxes whilst I study as well as raising my child alone and running my house. Yes I have it so easy.
Personally I can't think of a better use of public money than helping people to gain a qualification that will enable them to support their family entirely independently and without the need for benefits.

How very dare people try to better themselves whilst older, know your place peasants!

Of course none of us have actually contributed to they system by taxes or anything.

FFSYABUTiggaxx

41 year old law student here. Don't throw any of that age discrimination crap at me or I'll sue your ass .

YABU
There are a 101 reasons why some one might want to career change or go to university late in life.

DF's original career caused her serious depression, she has retrained to a career helping the disabled got a job and off benefits.

I am going to echo every one else now
LOADS of people cannot go the traditional way into education. I got all As in my GCSEs but didn't do A levels as I had to leave home at 17. I had to work full time in order to pay for my transport costs and flat. I never went out or did anything socially, I just paid for living. By the time I was 23 I was married with 2 children, still working full time. When the children were small I started a part time degree and finished the foundation part [shocked] whilst working part time. I still need to do my third year but I doubt I will be able to ever afford to, not in the near future anyway and I am 35. People aspire to more, this doesn't go away because you are older. You are still a person of worth and of ambition no matter what your age. Let people grow

startail has a point too, illness or disability in later life (or even early) can have an impact on what job you are able to do. What was once ideal often changes as you get older

I think a mature student chosing a career path is more likely to stick at it.

I wonder what the % of young students who start a course, change/finish or then never do the career they train for is. Used to be a MASSIVE beef of mine when it was being funded by the taxpayer...at least they have to foot the bill themselves now.

Good for you training, funding yourself and sticking to that career path.

Some of us had parents, short of money, who pressured us into going to work when we would have preferred to train for a better career. Ive spent decades working and paying tax - I was unaware that retraining could be funded at my age...thanks for telling me, but im not sure its as easy as you think.

of course it isn't as easy as she thinks, it's bloody hard work and puts a massive financial pressure on you :( I don't think i have ever posted this on mn but I think the OP is immature

I got a little help with childcare (120 a month) the rest is a loan

no bursaries (which you apply for and are means tested) no benefits and I am a single mother

i very much appreciate the childcare costs

I had to leave home at 17 I had to work and support myself and worked from that age until I was made redundant while on maternity leave then it was almost impossible to get a job though I did temp

so not really sure what you are moaning about, I could be bitter and complain like you are doing but rather not. I was not in a situation to go to university at 18 t and am very grateful that I can now even if I am getting myself into a lot of debt

I second buster's "You have no idea how lucky you are"

and I work

and I have to do volunteer work which takes up about 20 hours of my week

I would also say that I believe in education for education's sake. It is never a waste of money. My education as a mature student has enriched my life, given me confidence and hopefully skills that I can use to help society a little bit.

As a taxpayer I don't begrudge anyone being given free education, I can't imagine ever feeling bitter about my money being used to hep someone study for their career or personal development. Of all the things I could complain about my taxes being spent on, education is not one of them.

I wish it was all free for everyone.

I think it is very hard for someone who is either very young or comes from a middle class upbringing to understand just how hard it was to make ambitious career plans 30 years ago if you didn't come from the right kind of family/area/school.

How difficult it would have been to even find out about career options in pre-internet days if your family knew nothing and your teachers refused to give you information because university wasn't what they expected for pupils like you.

How difficult to come across right in interview when academic staff had had no equality training and it was far more unusual to hear a non-RP accent from a professional.

How difficult to go against the expectations of a family who needed your financial support.

And especially, how difficult if you were a woman.

Yes, some young working class people managed it- because they were unusually confident or (more often than not) because they found some public-minded teacher or mentor who was prepared to support them and encourage them and tell them about the possibilities.

I assume, as any mature student will all ready have financial committments, that they will research whether there are actually jobs relevant to the courses they do BEFORE deciding what course to do and signing up.

I wonder how many young students do this? How many people are we churning out with university degrees that have no practical use in the job market?

Ive never yet met a marine biologist or art historian who was doing a job that related to those courses but a fair few doing completely other jobs (which they also needed further education for)

How very dare people try to better themselves whilst older, know your place peasants!

Yes, know your place. You get one crack at education early doors and if you don't take it then resume your place in the rejects bin.

Education should be open to anyone at any age. If a 90 year old wanted to get a degree I wouldn't pull a face.

we had a woman in her 70s on my course :)