To be upset about what this mum was like with my DD

[housefullofnoisykids]

On Friday night DD (9) went out to tea with a friend and then to a sleepover at the friend's house. 2 other friends were invited so there were 4 children there in total including DD.

When I picked DD up yesterday morning she burst into tears as soon as we got into the car and said that the following had happened:

When they went out for tea DD there were the 4 kids and then 4 adults; the child's mum and dad and 2 friends of the mum. The mum made DD sit at a table with the 3 other adults and the mum sat at the table with the 3 other children. the mum's reasoning was that her DD wanted to sit with her mum. DD was upset as she didn't know the other adults at the table and obviously she felt left out.

They went back to the house for the sleepover. The birthday child and another girl that was there had it in for DD and spent the whole evening being horrible to her; making fun of the present she had given the girl (clothes) and saying it was horrible, making fun of DD's clothes and DD's pyjamas, and just saying mean things all evening. DD tried several times to tell the girls' mum what was going on and each time the girl's mum told her not to tell tales and to go and get on with everyone. She also said that the mum gave the birthday girl a pack of biscuits for them all to share but the birthday girl refused to let DD have any and the mum just said 'It's X's birthday, it's her choice' so DD didn't get any.

Another time the birthday girl went and told her mum DD had been horrible to her,and the mum went steaming into the bedroom and shouted at DD. DD said she hadn't and that it was the birthday girl and the mum said her daughter would never do that and that she is a lovely girl and DD needs to learn to get on with others.

DD then asked her to phone me as she wanted to go home, and DD said she was in tears at this point (DD says it was around 9pm) and the mum refused to phone me and just walked out of the room.

Then first thing in the morning DD says she woke up and all the other 3 were talking about her, saying they hate her now and that they won't speak to her at school. She again tried to tell the mum and the mum told her again to stop telling tales.

The mum didn't say a word to me about it at pick up and said they'd all had a lovely time and been good. DD normally gets on with everyone, has never had any problems at school with other children and is a lovely girl. Not perfect, as no child is, but certainly not deserving of this treatment. The mum has always seemed nice enough when we've met up with the girls and I've known her several years. Her DD is reasonably spoilt and is the centre of her mum's world. I really don't know where to go from here. Obviously any future playdate or party invitations will be declined, as will any invites from the mum for coffee. I feel if I say something it will cause trouble. I'm so upset though, that my DD was so upset staying at someone else's house and the mum wouldn't even phone me so I could collect her.

That sounds awful. your poor DD. I do think you should approach the mum, esp about the phoning home thing but I probably wouldn't go in all guns blazing. Ask for her account of what happened re the phonecall just to make sure that it's accurate (not accusing your DD of lying by any means, but sometimes when kids are upset, then stories can get confused.) Good luck.

Ultimately, OP, you should do what you deem to be in the best interests of your DD. Maybe it's better to leave it for the meantime and see how the other girls react to your DD during school hours. Let your DD know that she is to teel the teacher if the other girls pick on her.

It might be an idea to enrol your DD in some sort of martial arts class, so she can defend herself if necessary. It also instills discipline in the child so your DD may be more confident in her ability in handling the situation and defending herself if needed.

I hope you get this sorted OP, for your DD's sake.

tell the teacher. Would you also get your DD a diary to record any incidents with the other girl and/or her friends. That way if you ask to speak to the teacher you'll find out what's happening with the other girl, if the school's anti-bullying policy is being implemented to keep all pupils in line.

I may be biased by my own experience but my DM was exactly like you OP in this sort of situation.

If I was upset or felt I was being bullied as a child she would never confront the situation [be that child's parent or teacher], preferring to tell me to deal with it and not to say anything as it might cause trouble [for me and her].

She was sympathetic but just not very assertive. And unfortunately taught me to be the same.

So when as a young adult I was bullied at work my preferred method of dealing with it was to keep my head down and pretend it wasn't happening.

It is only as a middle aged woman that I have realised that this approach is ultimately unhelpful as it is destructive to the victim's self esteem [their wellbeing is not worth causing a fuss over] and also allows bullies to thrive unhindered.

In this situation I would calmly ring other mother for clarification and let DD know you are contacting her. The other mother may lie and bluster or may just in fact have a different version of events. But you have let her know that your DD was upset by circumstances and that you are speaking as her advocate. You are not afraid to confront the issue.

Depending on what you hear you may decide to believe the other mother's version of events or not, but most importantly you have shown your DD that you take her and her concerns seriously. That she is worth creating a "fuss" for.

This is very important for children's self esteem and is a powerful inoculation against their being crushed by further unpleasant behaviour or bullying.

Good luck OP!

Totally agree with onward bound. There is no need to be confrontational. Be reasonable in tone and do not engage with her on any kind of emotional level. Stick to the facts. Why did she not allow your daughter to ring home? You don't even have to respond to her even if she is awful.

My concern is that these girls will continue to target your daughter at school if they think she is a walk over. The ignore tactic doesn't work. Neither does confronting and then seeming all whiny over it. What will work is a reasonable, assertive tone of voice the same as you would use on a naughty toddler who isn't your child. Firm, friendly tone. It is amazing what you can say to people if you are smiling!

I agree completely with Onward and Nynaeves - no need to be confrontational or accuse the other mum of anything, but you must let her know that your DD was very upset and you are concerned. Be matter of fact about it. If there was a genuine misunderstanding, then it gives the other mum a chance to explain what happened, if she starts blaming your DD then you know where you stand and can take it from there.

I think it is really important that your DD sees you you will stand up for her and are not frightened of or intimidated by the other mum. I also don't think that your DD should be the judge of whether you contact the mum or not - she is a child and needs your support and for you to make the difficult decisions for her. I had a similar episode with DD, who had a bullying episode at school, she insisted she didn't want me to talk to the teachers, but I did in the end and the situation was monitored, action was taken and things were sorted within a week.

Oh that's awful, your poor dd

I remember once a when dd was little she had a friend here for a sleepover. The friend got upset at 1.45am and I drove her home as soon as we had spoken to her mum - I'd hate to think of any child visiting here being upset.

Hope your dd is ok

OK, well I wasn't going to come back to this thread but....

I received a text early this morning from the mum of the 2nd girl. Not the birthday girl but the other one that was being horrible to DD. Her DD had cried after the party because she was horrible to DD and she felt terrible about it. It is very out of character for that child. The mum said her DD wanted to apologise to DD. I text back and said that DD had been very upset but that I appreciated her texting me, but what had actually happened. She replied that her DD had said that they were being unkind to my DD, and then the birthday girl had been making things up and telling her mum that DD had done them, as she wanted to get DD into trouble. And yes, DD did have to sit on her own with 3 other adults in the restaurant. And she didn't get any biscuits.....

DD is not a pushover by any means, just wanted to clarify that too as I know that's been mentioned.

Walking into school this morning, the birthday child came running up to DD, all nice and chatty (she was with her gran,not the mum), and DD just blanked her and walked off, which is what I have told DD to do if this girl tries to talk to her at school, and the girl went very red faced and looked embarrassed and guilty, she clearly knows exactly why.

I have decided I'm going to speak to DD's teacher initially. As I said, these girls aren't in DD's main circle of friends, and tbh when DD is with her group of friends I don't think they would dare do it to her, I think they just took an opportunity to try to bully her when she didn't have her best, very close friends with her. I still don't see what can be gained from talking to the mum. She will clearly defend her DD to the hilt. At most I think all we will get is a half hearted apology . Which really won't mean anything.

I'm not a bad mother though, and I do defend my children. I have an older child who was bullied for several years at primary school and I tackled parents then, and ended up with some hating me for suggesting their little darlings would do horrible things, and the only thing that happened is the children were more horrible at school to DD, and she ended up getting excluded from parties and other things, as the parents didn't like me for speaking (very politely and nicely) to them about their childrens' behaviour. I do think sometimes it is best to just accept that some people in life aren't nice, and to teach children strategies for coping and for ignoring others. I frequently on here see posts by adults saying they don't fall out with people that upset them, they just cut them out of their life and move on. I think children need to learn this strategy.

OP, sounds like you've done the right thing. The other mum sounds like a nasty piece of work and so does her daughter.

That's good that the other girl realised her behaviour had been mean & wanted to apologise.
Sounds like you have a plan,good luck.

I've been following this, OP, and for what it's worth I think you're doing the right thing. Whilst I would want to confront the other mum, I think that your decision to watch and wait is best in this situation.

Also good on the mum that texted you. Pretty big of her and her daughter to admit the bullying and want to apologise.

Personally I think that now you have had clarification from the other child (presumably you have the text message from the other Mum) you are in a much better position to tackle the sleepover Mum. I would ask her about refusing to let DD ring you, then if she starts giving you flannel you can say that your DD's version has been corroborated by the other child & her Mother. You are not doing anyone any favours by not speaking to her- presumably the other girl & her Mum thought it a big deal enough to contact you about, I think you should see it the same way and contact the sleepover Mum.

Definitely contact sleepover mum now you've had the full story.

Poor DD :(

That is a good outcome housefullof, at least you have clarification from the other girl and her mother, and you can inform the school to look out for potential bullying. Good on your dd for blanking that horrid girl, hopefully she will realise he behaviour. what goes around comes around. I would keep the texts for future reference though.

It's a difficult one, isn't it. My DM was like Onwards, and as a result I grew up not wanting to cause a fuss in case it made things worse, or if I did speak up for myself I tended to go overboard and lash out verbally, rather than being assertive, as I just didn't know how to do otherwise.

It sounds as if your DD has taken the right approach, and by blanking Tallulah has let her know exactly what she thinks of her. I'd do the same to her mother, if you feel you don't want to tackle her on the issue, but if she tried to make conversation I would make it very clear why I wanted nothing more to do with her. I'd also speak to the teacher, summarise what happened and ask her to watch out for any repurcussions.

Some girls (and women) can be absolutely vile - I will never, ever understand this attitude, as long as I live.

What would contacting the sleepover mum achieve though, Stanley? As I said, at best I may get a half hearted apology. And then what?

SirChenjin, I'm not one for avoiding all confronation per se and of course I'd stick up for my kids, and have done at many times. I just think it's best to pick your battles. I think DD understands that it isn't her fault or her problem, rather the mother and the birthday girl that are at fault here, not through any fault of hers, just because they aren't very nice people.

We live in a small town. The school isn't that large. I know that tackling the mum would have repercussions and it wouldn't achieve anything. I would rather teach my daughter skills to deal with this kind of thing. Of course, if the mother asks me why I decline all future invitations I will say 'Because DD didn't have a nice time last time she came round', but I think anything more than this will just start an ongoing issue at the school, and that would be more harmful to DD than us just cutting them both out of our lives

I would say a half-hearted apology is a good result. You can relay it to your daughter, so she knows her experience was not acceptable, and the grown-ups involed have recognised this. It also gives her something to fall back on if the sleepover girl does say anything- 'well, your Mum apologised to my Mum so you know you did something wrong' Also, it may just open the eyes of the sleepover Mum if she is in such denial about her DD. She can't really argue with the other Mum without looking totally deranged.

exactly sirchen, it was not only the girls behaviour that was horrid, the mum was well out of order and mean denying your dd the use of the phone to call home, and siding with her dd and the other girls to make your dd feel even more for that. After that it would be a dealbreaker in the friendship and I would not want anything more to do with them again

meant to make your dd feel even worse and to prolong her distress and bullying

I would never ever deny any child the use of a phone to call home if they wanted to go home, be it a playdate or sleepover that is just nasty

I would keep your dd away from this child and her mother tbh. I had a similiar 'friend' till I was in my early twenties and realised how toxic her friendship had been through my childhood and later years.

I definitely won't be having anything to do with them again. DH agrees and has categorically said that the mother isn't coming into our house again ever. She often suggests meeting up at weekends, and during the holidays, with the girls, and I will be declining all of these, as well as declining any invites for DD to play at their house or for sleepovers.

edwardsmum, I too had a toxic friend at school, and it affected me really negatively, so I am always very keen that my kids drop any toxic friends. DD knows she doesn't want to be friends with this girl anymore, and I'm glad she has the confidence and self esteem to have made that decision to not speak to her.

You obviously know this person and the situation better than any of us on here House . Personally, I wouldn't be able to hold back from saying something, and we live in similar small town/smallish school - for me it wouldn't be about confrontation, it would be simply be about letting the mother know that I knew. If what you described had happened to any of my DCs I could not let it go - it's bullying of a child by an adult, and if it had happened in school, for example, or another situation where an adult behaved like that to my child, I would consider that grounds for stepping in. Everyone is different though, so I completely understand that you want to approach things differently.

That's a very good point, Chenjin. I guess it's not about the apology as such, but more about letting the mother know that I know how she behaved.