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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be horrified with my friend and not really want to see her any more?

378 replies

Rosesarenotalwaysred · 10/03/2013 19:35

My 'friend' is actually the wife of one of my dh's golf buddies and while we usually get on ok, we don't really have a lot in common and I find her a tad spoilt and selfish.

She has never been particularly hands on with her kids, opting to put her son in full time child care from an early age despite her not working because she didnt want to give up going to the gym etc, which i don't have a problem with, it's her life after all.

However she recently has a 'much wanted' second child and booked a holiday abroad for the four of them plus her PILs for a couple of months after the baby was born. When it came time for the holiday she decided it would be too much hassle to take an 8 wk old baby abroad and decided instead to leave him at home with her parents and went away for 2 weeks! I know it really is none of my business but I can't help but be utterly disgusted with her for caring so little about this poor little baby, I could understand if her and her hubby wanted a night away to themselves but to go on holiday and leave the baby for 2 whole weeks seems beyond the pale.

OP posts:
BegoniaBampot · 11/03/2013 18:10

Depends on how young the baby and if the people doing the child care is constant. And with childcare, the baby still goes home to it's mum and dad or carer every night. It's not abandoned thou wonder what say a one year old baby really makes of it all when it starts childcare. The majority seem to do Ok though.

Zara1984 · 11/03/2013 18:44

Seconding what ivanapoo says. If I tried to leave DS with family at 8 weeks old for two whole weeks they would have very sharp and disapproving words with me and would probably refuse to do it/be very distressed at the idea.

ubik · 11/03/2013 18:59

Rooney - you have linked to literature from America on placing children in foster care/adoption.

This is a very different scenario to the one the op is describing for many, many reasons which should be obvious.

If baby is left with a caregiver who is responsive to its needs, to whom it has already formed an attachment, then I don't think your link is really appropriate.

i wouldn't leave a baby this young for 2 weeks but alot of that is to do with my emotional needs rather than the baby's.

WhatsTheBuzz · 11/03/2013 20:09

merry I agree and if the subject of an 'aibu' revolved around a sahd choosing
to spend their money on fulltime childcare so he could piss off to the
gym or wherever, there'd be cries of 'is he normally such a twunt'.

Mintyy · 11/03/2013 20:10

I don't think there is anyone who has bothered to respond to this thread who has said that they would/would have left their 8 week old infant for two weeks in order to go on holiday.

So it is an unusual thing to do, probably, and beyond most people's experience. (I don't know anyone who has done this and I am 50 and have many acquaintances).

It is not in any way shape or form the same as having to go back to work when baby is 6 weeks old (whoever mentioned that from the US).

So, op (wherever you may be now Wink) your instinctive feeling that you have not much in common with this person is not unreasonable and it would be quite understandable if you let this "friendship" drift.

Satine5 · 11/03/2013 20:44

How do you know if the grandparents are "loving"?Maybe they are letting the baby cry it out, don't hold it too much in case they spoil the baby etc?
Shocked by some opinions on here tbh. YANBU.

sayithowitis · 11/03/2013 22:13

When DC1 was a baby I could not have imagined a scenario where I would have gone on holiday and left them. However, when DC was around 11/12 weeks old, an opportunity arose for several days abroad with DH. My parents, who had developed a very close bond with DC, were more than happy to move in as carers for the week. I had no worries about leaving DC with them - I knew they would take care of DCs needs, both physical and emotional. And I would have a chance, much needed and completely out of the blue, to recharge some seriously depleted batteries. The 18 months prior to the trip had been like hell for us - miscarriages, bereavement, many complications of pregnancy and whilst I would not have gone and booked a holiday, when the chance arose, I took it. I returned home very much refreshed and ready to face the future whilst putting some of the awful events of the previous months behind me. Dc1 is now mid-twenties and I do not for one minute think our close and loving relationship suffered because I took a few days away when they were a baby.

soimpressed · 11/03/2013 22:24

My 8 month old cousin stayed with my mum and dad for two weeks while my auntie and uncle went on holiday. My Mum found it odd at the time and asked why they didn't take him with them. My auntie said it wouldn't be a holiday if he came along Confused. He took his first steps with us.

None of us judged them for going away, just thought it wasn't something we would do. All of my cousins are now grown up and although they are all OK as individuals as a family they are very dysfunctional

quoteunquote · 11/03/2013 22:47

I have a friend who was like this, always slightly detached from her children, when she and her husband eventually split, there was no custody battle she didn't want her DC full time,

she only has them a night a week and often forgoes that, her ex, nice guy, is very none judgemental about it, he said he realised as soon as they had them she wasn't maternal,

He begs her to spend more time with them,for theirs,his and hers sake, she just never manages it, the oldest ,12 year old is starting to recent her,

she lovely woman, has a skilled medical job, she just not into being a mum, dads opt out all the time, sad for the children, never pays maintenance,

I'm sure if we all were harsh towards her she would of done a full bunk, years ago, her DC are far better seeing some of her , than nothing, so we try to be encouraging, invite her to the fun stuff,

I wouldn't of left any of mine, but that's me, I don't expect anyone to live my life.

Xmasbaby11 · 11/03/2013 22:52

I suppose this case is not so much the holiday as an isolated incident, it is the mother's attitude overall of not valuing time with the baby.

There is no question that if you don't like someone or respect their views, you should distance yourself. That is not friendship.

MrsSham · 11/03/2013 22:56

Rooney that is talking about long term separation and again talking about the first year not the first few weeks of a child's development.

RooneyMara · 12/03/2013 07:33

I disagree, Mrs Sham and Ubik. I believe, though I may be wrong, that the piece I copied from my link is describing infants who trust their primary caregiver (see my post below/above) and an infan't response in general terms to separation.
It's not relevant, well not apparently relevant that these children are taken away permanently - as it says, the infant cannot understand that the parent is coming back and thus experiences their loss.

So going off for an hour or a day is possibly not going to be too harsh on a small baby, I don't know - I was wondering how long it would take for a baby to register the loss, or absence - and how that would work with childcare iyswim? I do not know.

However a period of two weeks is kind of beyond that and I don't doubt that a child would not know its mother was going to come back.

BegoniaBampot · 12/03/2013 08:02

When you put it like that, whether the GP's are loving or not it's horrible to think of a small babies principle carer (mother usually) just disappearing and not coming back. That's what it must seem like to a little baby who doesn't understand and two weeks would seem a long time. Really sad actually.

RooneyMara · 12/03/2013 08:56

Well exactly. the smaller the baby and the shorter the amount of time so far spent with the parent, I imagine, the more damage is likely.

If you look at just about any animal species, the attachment that happens with a tiny child and its mother is something that is sacred and mustn't be interfered with.

It would be considered damaging if the baby was stolen from its parents by a stranger, even if the stranger was loving and kind to it for two weeks there would be damage done. Just because the mother is choosing to 'reject' the child for those two weeks instead of having the child taken from her - doesn't make it OK imo.

RooneyMara · 12/03/2013 08:59

I mean the baby knows its mother's features, her smell, her habits and her voice. It knows everything about her, in relation to itself and its own needs, and has done since it was in her womb.

I think abstracting herself from its life for that amount of time is just a really poor idea.

ubik · 12/03/2013 09:23

Hmm - when you talk about 'damage' I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the child will have trouble firming secure attachments in later life because its mother went away for 2weeks? There are plenty if adults who have been through far, far worse and babies and now have healthy secure adult relationships.

That said, leaving your baby for 2weeks is intuitively not what most mothers would do -although I think the queen did it after Charles was born and look how well he turned out! Grin

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 12/03/2013 09:56

What is the difference - to the BABY - whether its mother is away from it for work purposes or on holiday for the first few weeks of it's life? There is no difference so trying to 'grade' yourself on a scale of whether you are a better mother if you were out working is irrelevant.

You never know a person's life or background or their reasons for doing anything. You can only look at the net 'snapshot' and ponder whether you would do that or not. That's where the comparison begins and ends really.

I expect the OP is rubbing her thighs together at this thread. Where is a 'goady' emoticon when you want one? This one will do...Hmm

crashdoll · 12/03/2013 11:15

Rooney I'm not sure why you are focusing on "the baby knows its mother's smell" etc since Bowlby's early findings regarding babies needing their mothers have since been widely discredited. Now, we accept that babies need intuitive caregivers. The study you linked to also was discussing babies who had experienced insecure/disorganised attachments before the separation from their primary caregiver. We have no idea the relationship these parents have with the baby either before the 2 week holiday or after.

RooneyMara · 12/03/2013 12:07

No Ubik I was talking about damage to the relationship between the baby and its mum

It might be temporary, it might not - I'm not an expert and I'm not sure if anyone is. I'm just going by what I've read (including in that article) about the impact of loss on a small baby.

I don't think there's much doubt that the baby will perceive it as a loss from what I have read.

some of Bowlby has been discredited by some people - some of it has not.

thezebrawearspurple · 12/03/2013 12:45

I think there would be something wrong with you if you didn't judge. I feel sorry for any 8 week old whose parents are so detached from him that they can happily leave him for a couple of weeks for a holiday. It's disturbing. She obviously isn't bonded to him and putting her other child in full time childcare from babyhood despite being unemployed so she can preen herself all day, every day indicates she's not very into them anyway. I couldn't be friends with someone who knowingly brought a second child into the world fully accepting that she would have so little (if any?) feeling for and no attachment to it. Babies need attachment and love for their brains to grow properly, it's frightening how many people don't seem to get that, although sadly unsurprising considering how many kids have serious issues.

Judge away and avoid.

pictish · 12/03/2013 12:55

Oh spare us the bleeding heart, guilt laden lament Zebra.

You are talking about this woman as if you know her personally. You don't. You are just guessing, enjoying your tragic fantasy. Any more of that and we'll have call in the good doctor from over yonder, to make a tonic for your nerves.

WhatsTheBuzz · 12/03/2013 12:56

true,
you don't know a person's life or background so how the fuck do you
know that an adult whose parents left them for 2 weeks at a time when
they were tiny doesn't have issues because of their parents'
indifference?

pictish · 12/03/2013 12:58

I don't...but neither am I writing novella about it and taking to my chambers in a faint.

WhatsTheBuzz · 12/03/2013 12:58

(by the way, most of us are 'just guessing'...)

appletarts · 12/03/2013 13:28

How about looking at it the way? Is this something that would be good for the baby? Most mothers are looking to do good for their 8 week old baby.

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