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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be horrified with my friend and not really want to see her any more?

378 replies

Rosesarenotalwaysred · 10/03/2013 19:35

My 'friend' is actually the wife of one of my dh's golf buddies and while we usually get on ok, we don't really have a lot in common and I find her a tad spoilt and selfish.

She has never been particularly hands on with her kids, opting to put her son in full time child care from an early age despite her not working because she didnt want to give up going to the gym etc, which i don't have a problem with, it's her life after all.

However she recently has a 'much wanted' second child and booked a holiday abroad for the four of them plus her PILs for a couple of months after the baby was born. When it came time for the holiday she decided it would be too much hassle to take an 8 wk old baby abroad and decided instead to leave him at home with her parents and went away for 2 weeks! I know it really is none of my business but I can't help but be utterly disgusted with her for caring so little about this poor little baby, I could understand if her and her hubby wanted a night away to themselves but to go on holiday and leave the baby for 2 whole weeks seems beyond the pale.

OP posts:
HorribleMother · 11/03/2013 12:57

YANBU to figure out you don't have much in common & she's not someone you want to much be friends with.

I would meet up with her occasionally just to have a privately Shock gawp at her way of doing things, though. Probably OP is far nicer to just drop the lady in a straightforward open way.

Frenemy, who me? Wink

EmmaBemma · 11/03/2013 12:59

"Zara.

liking your style smile
Tell it how it is grin"

No, she's telling it how you think it is... which is not the same thing. Important developmental stage, this, which is a shame as many adults seem not to have gone through it: understanding that the world is not always as you would want it to be, that sometimes people do thinks differently to you, and... that's OK.

EmmaBemma · 11/03/2013 12:59

do things differently...

smellysocksandchickenpox · 11/03/2013 13:01

a friend of mine did the same, turned out she had pretty bad PND/PNPsycosis. Both her and the baby were actually safer apart as noone had diagnosed her

ChairmanWow · 11/03/2013 13:10

IN a shocking move you could try telling your friend how you feel and then decide to talk to her or not based on her reaction?

Yes, do that. Decide to dump her or keep her and then everyone can put their judgy pants back in the drawer. Some of them might need washing first though. There may have been some soiling due to over-excitement Grin

mungotracy · 11/03/2013 13:24

"that sometimes people do thinks differently to you, and... that's OK." and sometimes its really not OK. :)

LemonPeculiarJones · 11/03/2013 13:30

There are women on here who are saying they couldn't leave their babies for a fortnight at 8 weeks old and they are being accused of being judgey/hysterical/crazy attachment parents with no lives.

The judgements are flying in all directions on this thread, with some hysteria on both sides (Chairman's comment about soiling is a little over-excited, for example Grin ).

Why can't we all just get along?! Grin

If this woman has PND she needs support. If she's swanned off on holiday without a backward glance then I do think I would at least question (privately) her attachment to her baby, because at eight weeks the baby is so new and tiny. I wouldn't be unfriendly to her though. I'd just feel I had less in common with her.

That's my opinion, and it doesn't make me a hysterical loon.

I don't think the OP should tell her friend how she feels - it isn't her business to do that - but she has every right to phase the friendship out. This incident seems to have been the last straw in an already iffy friendship.

Mintyy · 11/03/2013 13:38

I am horribly intolerant and narrow minded.

I would dump this "friend" but at the same time I wouldn't be all that keen to stay friends with someone who insisted on bringing their 6+ month old on a night out at a restaurant (which I have seen plenty of threads about on here too).

Its my way or the highway afaiac.

AnnieLobeseder · 11/03/2013 13:39

LemonPeculiarJones - it's not people who wouldn't leave their 8wo who are being accused of being "judgey/hysterical/crazy attachment parents with no lives". I think the unanimous feeling is that we personally wouldn't do it.

It's the folk who are saying that the baby will be impermanently emotionally scarred by the experience who have some of us going Hmm.

AnnieLobeseder · 11/03/2013 13:40

"impermanently"? Is that even a word? Hmm

ChairmanWow · 11/03/2013 13:51

Oh dear. Sense of humour failure.

This thread has been extremely judgy. The core points seem to be:

  1. Should the OP continue being friends with this person?
  2. Is the OP's friend's behaviour actually 'horrifying'?

Most of us wouldn't leave our 8 week old babies by choice. But that doesn't mean this person's baby is going to suffer neglect or any long term damage. Equally I don't get why this woman having her child in full-time day care is any different from my DS being in full-time day care while I've been working (currently on mat leave). The children have the same experience no matter whether mum is at the gym or out earning.

People have posted some really personal stuff on here about their experiences of being separated from their kids due to PNP and I can't imagine this thread is helping with any residual (and unfounded) guilt.

The OP's friend has also had all kinds of speculation visited on her, from PND to not getting a refund for her holiday to just being a completely shit parent. Maybe she' just wants a bloody holiday. Maybe the grandparents want some time with their GC. Who knows?

I'd love to see a thread where people are able to applaud each other for their different parenting choices rather than this self-sacrifice pissing contest. I'm sure all our kids feel very loved and are thriving. Surely that's a great enough thing in itself.

shewhowines · 11/03/2013 13:51

Annie I have been accused of being hysterical.

I do not think the baby will be permanently scarred however, I have been arguing that I have a right to judge.

I think it is extremely selfish to put your own needs before that of a tiny baby particularly when the PND argument is negated by the fact that 4 adults will be on the holiday. It might not leave lasting damage but it is still not right.

There are those who have been arguing think it is none of my business and I shouldn't judge (even if they wouldn't leave the baby themselves). I do judge and so have many others. That is our right.

LemonPeculiarJones · 11/03/2013 14:00

annie I haven't read many posts making that point, it's quite out there I agree.

I suppose I would wonder if that attitude (ie the friend's) was symptomatic of her parenting in general - which might have a long-term effect. I think it's all about context, too - other factors in terms of what this woman is like.

'Woman holidays for fortnight without 8 week old baby' is not enough information. But the OP seems to be describing a woman who is a bit self-absorbed and not that involved in her parenting, prioritising more superficial things (and this isn't a criticism of a full vibrant life aside from kids, which I try and fail, due to exhaustion to have myself! It's really important to have that).

I wonder if we all know an acquaintance who behaves towards their kids in a way that makes us think, poor little sods Sad (I don't mean abuse, but less obvious undermining/detached behaviours) And we don't feel like pursuing that friendship. I know someone like that and I'm perfectly friendly to her when I see her but I maintain a distance.

I just think the OP is NBU to feel less connected to this woman.

merrymouse · 11/03/2013 14:06

But what would you say to somebody who seemed to have nothing to do except go to the gym?

"How many reps did you do today?".

To be fair, I suppose this woman might find a camping holiday or a career mystifying. I think this is more about how compatible the partner of your partner's friend has to be if you are truly going to consider them a friend.

dreamingbohemian · 11/03/2013 14:06

But if it doesn't leave lasting damage, what makes it 'not right'?

Which of the baby's needs will not be met? It will be fed, clothed, kept warm and dry, probably given loads of cuddles from grandparents.

This is all about women judging other women for not conforming to idealised notions of motherhood.

There's no real reason to think the baby will suffer at all, so why all the vitriol? Just because someone has a different idea of motherhood?

I mean, really. Burn her why don't ya.

shewhowines · 11/03/2013 14:13

Theres also no real reason to know that that the baby definitely won't suffer at the time. We don't know what impact it will have. It's primary carer is missing for 25% of its life if the parent is absent for 2 weeks when it is only 8 weeks old.

Barring emergencies, why should any parent put it's own need first because they fancy a holiday? It's just selfishness and unfair on the baby.

BegoniaBampot · 11/03/2013 14:21

Feel for the poor GP's looking after a 8 week baby for 2 weeks. Hope she's paying for a holiday for them when she gets back. I would never usually have left my very young (or even older) baby with parents or INlaws for more than a few hours at a time as I imagine they found it tiring and demanding.

PromQueenWithin · 11/03/2013 14:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RooneyMara · 11/03/2013 14:32

It is possible that the baby will be damaged imo. It will almost certainly be confused and probably somewhat upset.

My baby is the same age and already clearly has a preference for being with me as opposed to being with anyone else.

I don't know her reasons for going but I just couldn't.

appletarts · 11/03/2013 14:34

Damage is a bit of a catch all to describe what will happen to newborn while mum is off shaking her tail-feather. There will be a sense of loss for that baby and there is much evidence that babies separated from their mother very young go through the stages of mourning as if mother were dead. Of course babies are able to work through this during their childhood with hopefully consistent care but why would anyone voluntarily give their baby that early knowledge of loss. In some terrible circumstances mum and baby can't be together but to voluntarily do this is selfish and cruel.

RooneyMara · 11/03/2013 14:35

'But if it doesn't leave lasting damage, what makes it 'not right'?

Which of the baby's needs will not be met? It will be fed, clothed, kept warm and dry, probably given loads of cuddles from grandparents.

This is all about women judging other women for not conforming to idealised notions of motherhood.'

Why then do so many adopted babies have issues with attachment? All their material needs might be met and they are with people who love them - but it isn't always enough. They aren't the right people - the people the baby knew from the start have gone.

Two weeks as opposed to forever is a different thing of course, but I'd question the sanity of doing this. It's not going to be good for the baby, even if it isn't definitely bad for it.

kerala · 11/03/2013 14:35

A woman I worked with left her pre school daughter with her ex husbands nanny and went to live in Australia for good with a new man. I must admit I was Shock and this was before I had children. Now I do I am even more mystified. And yes I would have thought the same if it were a father doing it.

PromQueenWithin · 11/03/2013 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RooneyMara · 11/03/2013 14:36

'There will be a sense of loss for that baby and there is much evidence that babies separated from their mother very young go through the stages of mourning as if mother were dead'

I have read this before as well. Appletarts, is it in Bowlby or something else?

RooneyMara · 11/03/2013 14:37

Promqueen, because he isn't the OP's subject. I think he's probably wrong to go as well if it comes down to it.

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