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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to laugh at parents who try to reason with a toddler having a tantrum?

213 replies

stradbally · 10/02/2013 15:15

Mummy: "It's time to leave the park now DS/DD, I did say 20 minutes and you've had 25, and we have to go to Tesco on the way home to buy yummy food for dinner, so please get in the buggy, you can see Millie/Billy tomorrow, say bye bye now etc etc ......."

DS/DD: "Waaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaaa while rolling on the ground or doing that running on the spot thing

Mummy, in weird uber-controlled voice: I understand you're tired and playing in the park is lots of fun but we do want lovely dinner don't we, so please get in the buggy etc etc on and on..........

DS/DD: Waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaaa

I see it all the time, it's hilarious. I'm all for talking properly to children and explaining things etc, but seriously when they're in that state it won't go in! Just pick them up, quick cuddle, plonk them in the buggy and go!

OP posts:
soimpressed · 10/02/2013 20:40

YABU and to be honest you sound like one of those old ladies who are always ready to tell you 'that child needs a hat/gloves/sleep/feed/smack'

bigmouthstrikesagain · 10/02/2013 20:46

you can explain while you are firmly removing a child from a situation/ fastening them into a buggy. There is a false division being created in this discussion. Yesterday my 4 year old was kicking up a huge fuss about going home from a friends house. While she cried, struggled and refused to cooperate, I talked about what we were doing and why and at the same time got her coat on her (gave up trying to put shoes on kicking feet) and picked her up and carried her out of my friends house. By the time we were nearing our house she was sitting on my shoulders singing and laughing her tantrum forgotten - I talked and acted - not mutually exclusive y'see.

Toddlers are not the only ones you cannot easily reason with when riled adults, teens and 10 year olds can all be incoherent with rage/ fear etc. still have to try ... you are teaching them how you want to communicate and taking control of the situation. That us how I view it anyway.

KatieMiddleton · 10/02/2013 20:47

There's a huge difference between parents who fail to parent their offspring and condone bad behaviour by inaction and those who try explaining, warning and then punishment/removal from the situation (possibly while still explaining but not everyone bothers every time). What you are describing Sherazade is the former.

NannyPlumIsMyMum · 10/02/2013 21:10

Yabvu.

Acknowledging their feelings can sometimes be exactly the right thing to do with an emotional toddler.

It helps them to label their feelings and ultimately helps them to develop secure relationships later in adult life.

SirBoobAlot · 10/02/2013 21:15

YABVU.

Do you ignore the emotional needs of older children or adults? Why on earth are the emotional needs of a distressed toddler any less significant?

I always reason with DS, and acknowledge how is feeling. It might not change the outcome of a situation but reassuring him does wonders. "I'm sorry you're upset DS. Unfortunately we do have to leave now. Haven't we had a lovely day, though? And we can make sure we arrange something else again soon. Now, could you help me find your shoes..." etc. And because he is reassured when he does get upset, he gets less distressed as a consequence, because he very often tells me now, "Thank you for sorting out a fun day mummy, we do it again soon, yes?", and is mostly smiles as we leave somewhere.

Treating children with a bit of respect does wonders.

DizzyZebra · 10/02/2013 21:17

YABU. My DD is quite easy to reason with.

BigAudioDynamite · 10/02/2013 21:20

i dont think this extended 'reasoning' does really equate to acknowledging their feelings. And I also dont think that by fore-going this extended reasoning you arent acknowledging their feelings Confused

i think most people do this, for the benefit of other parents around them dont they...because they are embarrassed?

Goldenbear · 10/02/2013 21:34

Er..no they don't- I happen to want a relationship where I can communicate with them and them me. Why is that so hard to believe. With the example I have at the beginning it certainly wasn't for the benefit of onlookers as there weren't any!

BigAudioDynamite · 10/02/2013 21:42

goldenbear i certainly explain to my kids the whys and what fors...but there are definitely times when it is beyond explaining isnt there?...im guessing that is what the OP is talking about...when they cant even hear the parent above the wailing. I use a mixture of methods. havent had a pushchair since 18 months old, so the hold 'em down, strap 'em in option isnt available any more.. i think reasoning is every parents first line ....after that, my dcs respond usually best to diversion/ignorance/bribery

ifitsnotanarse · 10/02/2013 21:50

YABVU and smug.

Goldenbear · 10/02/2013 21:57

So you do reason with them but only to a point and when you have got to this mystical boundary of reasoning you stop explaining. When you see others crossing that line you judge them for doing some kind of display parenting but that is surely what it is because you wouldn't do it? Like I said, no one was around when I was reasoning with my DD the other day so it didn't even cross my mind to take in to account everybody else's thoughts and feelings on the situation. It works for my DD and that is the important thing to me. It also works very well on DS so I wish I'd been confident enough to go with my instinct on that at the time, rather than adopting silly american text book techniques that made everything worse.

BigAudioDynamite · 10/02/2013 22:04

me golden?? no, i dont judge anyone else...i dont care how other people raise their kids...i didnt read your example...

but putting in in adult context like you did earlier...its the same if you are having an arguement with someone isnt it...if youve repeated your point 20 or 30 times, there really is no point in saying it again...or person is ranting and raving and you know they arent listening, the sensible thing to do sometimes is to disengage/ walk away until both of you have calmed down

ditziness · 10/02/2013 22:15

What a strange thread, the main protagonists seemingly completely oblivious to common parenting theory!

OP- the book you're seeing the result of in playgrounds is " how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids 'll talk"

Goldenbear- the book that wannabe has read is called " unconditional parenting" . Worth a read, if only to see what your approach is contrary to

ditziness · 10/02/2013 22:16

I 'm surprised. I thought you had to prove you'd read those books before you could register on mumsnet!

Goldenbear · 10/02/2013 22:24

I didn't say anything about reasoning with adults.

I understand what you're saying but I have not got the point where reasoning hasn't worked. My DS was bad at leaving, had epic tantrums, got aggressive with those tantrums and I was fire fighting all the time- believe me I felt incredibly inadequate and reading books like, 'Toddler Taming' and applying this advice and not getting anywhere. I wish I'd had the confidence to go with my gut feelings sooner than I did and not bothered frankly- I feel guilty about the fact that I didn't given how much better things are now.

TheSkiingGardener · 10/02/2013 22:30

Um, sorry ditziness. Never read any of those books or any other parenting books either. Read a few psychotherapy text books to be fair. However, you really don't have to read somebody else's idea of a parenting manual to have ideas on how to parent. Be original! Think a little!

MyDarlingClementine · 10/02/2013 22:43

Threads like this make me feel un comfortable and I dont know why, its almost ridiculous.

I think it may be because apart from op being amused by a parent trying to rationalise and stuff with a toddler, I think its because I have seen toddlers rather nastily man handled into prams and because the later has been so horrid - in the extreme I think the former should be left alone. Confused

wannabedomesticgoddess · 10/02/2013 22:44

I actually havent read that book Blush but I have just had a read of the main theories in it and it would seem I have in some respects adopted that theory into my parenting.

I am all for reasoning. Its all I do with DD1. And I could count the number of out of control tantrums shes had in her four years on one hand.

My objection was to the idea that every behaviour, good or bad, is linked to mummys mood.

If the consequence of her behaviour has made an impact on someones feelings, ofcourse that should be explained. But it shouldnt become the go-to reasoning behind everything.

NotGeoffVader · 10/02/2013 22:46

I laughed at my toddler having a tantrum today. We were at home, and she'd been playing nicely. I asked her to put her socks on, which she'd taken off, and put a pair back on the dryer which she'd taken off. This resulted in her standing on the spot, screaming, crying, and stamping her feet.

Didn't last long though when she saw I was almost crying with laughter at the futility of the tantrum.

ApocalypseThen · 10/02/2013 22:52

I don't think you're being unreasonable, OP. I don't know how many times I've seen pathetic and ineffectual parents attempt to reason/negotiate with a toddler who is actually more skilled at negotiation than the parent. That can be hilarious. The parent threatens to take sweets off the menu if some behaviour or other doesn't stop, behaviour doesn't stop, sweets are off the menu till the child puts them back on by refusing to apologise until sweets are reinstated.

P.A. thetic. And hilarious for the bystander.

I'm a great believer in reasoning so far and then telling them what's going to happen. And if it means that we're getting in the car and going home without going into the shop to pick stuff up for dinner, believe you me, that's what's going to happen. If they want bread and jam for dinner, it's no skin off my nose.

Goldenbear · 10/02/2013 22:55

How very patronising Ditziness, what am I exactly doing other than talking to my DD in a simplistic way about feelings. I don't want her to grow up to be some egotist that doesn't give a shit about how her behaviour impacts on others. So when she was biting me, an unconditional theorist would do what exactly? A person being sad about being bitten by someone would be a natural reaction she would come across, so what is wrong with introducing that emotional reaction in a loving context. It is a far safer environment to experience that reaction in than one where the person or child may not be quite so forgiving.

Like I said I carried her whilst pushing the buggy in the example I gave earlier as I feel very uncomfortable in imposing my will on hers just because I'm the parent. So unconditional parenting would have me do what - shoving her in the pushchair with an explanation about some things we have to just do and then wheeling on with regardless of the tears and upset. There is a condition in this situation anyway so im not sure how such action is superior?

Goldenbear · 10/02/2013 23:04

Wannabe, where did I say it was my default parenting line? Suddenly you reason with your DD all the time but you laugh at others that do it- bit of a contradiction that?

I can confidently (and happily) say my parenting technique is the complete opposite to Apocalypse.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 10/02/2013 23:04

Biting equals pain. Not sadness.

Pain is the consequence. Unconditional parenting would recognise that your DD did not bite you to hurt you or make you sad. She did it out of frustration. If she has no grasp of the consequence how can you punish her for that?

this page outlines it.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 10/02/2013 23:06

I laugh at reasoning with a toddler that is unreasonable. Not at reasoning itself.

You are very defensive. I dont know why.

ApocalypseThen · 10/02/2013 23:08

I can confidently (and happily) say my parenting technique is the complete opposite to Apocalypse.

Great stuff. Hopefully you leave the passive aggression to your dealings with adults though.