to laugh at parents who try to reason with a toddler having a tantrum?

[stradbally]

Mummy: "It's time to leave the park now DS/DD, I did say 20 minutes and you've had 25, and we have to go to Tesco on the way home to buy yummy food for dinner, so please get in the buggy, you can see Millie/Billy tomorrow, say bye bye now etc etc ......."

DS/DD: "Waaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaaa while rolling on the ground or doing that running on the spot thing

Mummy, in weird uber-controlled voice: I understand you're tired and playing in the park is lots of fun but we do want lovely dinner don't we, so please get in the buggy etc etc on and on..........

DS/DD: Waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaaa

I see it all the time, it's hilarious. I'm all for talking properly to children and explaining things etc, but seriously when they're in that state it won't go in! Just pick them up, quick cuddle, plonk them in the buggy and go!

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

I did not laugh at her. I laughed at the situation. She was too busy screaming to even notice.

Its bread and jam. Not rat poison.

And I havent read the book. Didnt you read that bit? So I already have used my imagination.

Tbh your attitude is extremely confrontational. And actually, trying to reason with someone who is unreasonable never works no matter what their age. So I shall leave you too it. :)

[Goldenbear]

You are actually very offensive in your 'Stately Home' comparisons and ironically very passive aggressive and yet don't expect to be pulled on it - hence the 'confrontational' comments. I was asking how your parenting technique would result in you avoiding being a subject on the 'Stately Homes' thread in 20 years time but you couldn't, didn't provide a straight answer. How bizarre to think using the word 'sad' to describe an emotion will damage my DD for life but feeding her bread and Jam as a consequence (punishment) for her behaviour will have no lasting damage. I think you're rationale needs rethinking.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

I was asking how your parenting technique would result in you avoiding being a subject on the 'Stately Homes' thread in 20 years time but you couldn't, didn't provide a straight answer.

Where did you ask that?

I rethink my parenting all the time. I suggest you do the same.

[Goldenbear]

Why would I rethink aptly describing an emotion to my DD. As far as I can see I reasoned with my DD who was happy as a result, you on the other hand have explained how you carried your daughter to the car kicking and screaming and laughing about it all. Equally, you think it is perfectly reasonable to give jam and bread for dinner when something more appealing has been offered but then withdrawn as a result of children learning that there are consequences. Yes because that is unconditional love in action isn't it??

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Linking parental emotion to a childs behaviour is abusive. No question.

Would you rather I allowed a two year old to thrash around on tarmac in the rain?

Get. Over. The. Food.

Seriously. Its bread and fucking jam.

[PessaryPam]

wannabe all you can do is what you believe right with your own kids. I never allowed tantrums to continue, we were out of there, twins strapped in buggy whether they liked it or not. Didn't even explain consequences, I just did what needed to be done. The DDs are pretty normal now they are grown up. Don't think it did any harm.

BTW the ECHR would construe bread and jam as a cruel and unusual punishment , the rest of us would just think yummy.

[Goldenbear]

How is it abusive to demonstrate an emotional response to something that deserves one? You think it is healthy to never respond emotionally as a parent when it warrants it. How the heck do you expect your child to develop emotional responses if they have never seen the parents do so it don't you want them to? Do you just want them to not have the language of emotion and suppress all if their feelings?

If you lift up and carry a child away back to a car where you will strap them in whilst all the while they are screaming, crying and are upset, you are ignoring their feelings, demonstrating zero compassion and tolerance for their concerns. Added to that you're laughing about the situation - seems pretty cold and callous to me. No doubt when you got to the car you pinned them in their seats which usually has to be very forceful. This all says to the child you are bigger, stronger and ultimately the boss of them so you'll have to put up with it. Quite a few bullying traits being exhibited their and yet that is going to have no lasting damage? Maybe maybe not but if I was of that mindset I wouldn't go around pretending I was virtuous in doing so and I definitely would t categorically say a parent was abusive for revealing to their children they had feelings. It is not normal to pretend you don't have feelings.

Feeding your child bread and jam to teach them about consequences is really very fucked up indeed in my mind. Food is being used as compliance weapon. Now things like that do fuck up children's adult life and their relationship with food. Be an adult, grow up and appreciate children are often not to keen on food shopping. Get over it and feed them a proper dinner.

[Gingerodgers]

Gosh,, and I thought this was going to be a light hearted thread! How wrong was I ??

[PessaryPam]

Playing mind games with kids is crueler than physically restraining them IMHO.

I suppose the proof is in the pudding. I have 2 happy healthy adult girls who are at university and are keen to get on with their lives. They have a very close and friendly relationship with both DH and myself.

[ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay]

Well i'm the idiot you'll see trying to reason with an 8 month old. Now that must make me look truly ridiculous but i think i do it out of habit.

Baby: screaming
Me: but it's raining! You're warm and snug and dry in the pushchair. It's cold and wet out here.
Baby: screaming
Me: and it will take us longer to get home if i'm carrying you so we'll both get more wet.
Baby: screaming
Me: and i can't carry you and the umbrella and push the pram.....
Baby: screaming
Me: oh ffs [picks screaming child out of pushchair and walks along in the rain ]

So i get the best of both world, judgemental glances for pushing a screaming baby and then judgemental looks for carrying a smiling and happy baby in the rain. Can't win. Can arrive home looking like a drowned rat.

OP, you got a tough response to a jokey intent, but hey, you got a good debate going....

[Illgetmegoat]

I decided to just carry on and ignore the food war which makes my post look a bit mental now!

Thinkaboutit - you are not alone, I frequently chatted to the baby as if they were the older siblings and I think there have been a couple of times when my endless and reasonable litany has just made the baby go and quit due to despairing of my ability to behave like a normal grown up. To be fair I reckon all the DC think I'm half potty what with my obsession with washing hands and not not pushing each other into the road and other ridiculous expectations especially when child x obviously deserved it due to being too close to child y and being a plane when they were playing cars...

Sometimes I pull the plug on reasoning - like the time DS needed peas...but not green peas, blue peas. Apparently they absolutely do exist 'in my mind mummy'. We had carrots instead and he had to lump it.

[differentnameforthis]

Goldenbear You are doing nothing wrong. I was on the original stately homes thread & my stories (under a different name) with the stories of others is what inspired it's inception. I no longer post on it, because I don't feel the need the need anymore.

But please believe me, that none of us where there for the simple reason that we made our parents "sad"! There is a lot of emotional/mental & physical hurt behind that thread. I certainly would not have been there if my only problem was that mum told me I made her sad. Infact, I don't recall her ever saying that. It might have been nice if she had, at least then I would have known I could emotionally affect her in some way!

So please, don't feel bad about telling your dc that the things they do/say to you make you sad etc. As long as they know they make you happy too :)

[MollyMurphy]

Wow - "pathetic" and "hilarious" parents struggling to handle their children to the best of their ability and knowledge. This thread makes me sad

Can we not just acknowledge that sometimes parenting is hard and most people are trying their best? it's not like the people employing this approach are abusing their kids.

[CheerfulYank]

There's a difference between a child who's mildly upset and one who's full on tantruming, though. If a child's really in the thick of a screaming all-out meltdown, they can't really hear you, and nothing you say is really going to register.

That being said, I did once plunk my DS in a shopping carry and wheel him out while he was screeching and thrashing. And I talked to him while doing it, repeating in a loud, clear voice, "yes I know you're upset. But you would not behave in the store, and we have to leave now." But I wasn't doing it for his benefit, I was doing it to keep myself calm and to reassure onlookers that I wasn't beating him.

[differentnameforthis]

Our children should never be made to feel responsible for our happiness

No, they shouldn't & I don't think Golden is saying that they should. But I do agree with her in that they should learn when they make people sad/happy/angry through some of their actions!

It's called learning that your actions have consequences. My dd kicked me in the face, quite accidentally, but it made me cry as it was right on bridge of my nose. She knew - at 4 - that it was her fault & that she needed to say sorry, even if it was an accident.

I think what Golden is trying to say is that when children are responsible for causing an emotion, it doesn't necessarily hurt for them to be aware that they have caused that!

You are interpreting her all wrong.

[differentnameforthis]

FWIW, laughing at an upset (where some of you read/write tantruming) child is far more damaging than teaching them that their actions sometimes cause people to be upset/sad.

They do not know that you are laughing at the situation, they just think you are laughing at their upset. I have lived through both as a child, and I know which was more damaging to me.

And it wasn't learning that biting (as a toddler) made my dad sad!

[Goldenbear]

Mind games? I play no mind games on my Dd- what a spiteful thing to say. The basic concept of feeling sad was introduced on reading an 'opposites' book in the Gruffalo series. I applied it to a real context when my DS was crying having been bitten by Dd. she was confused by his reaction and saying he was hurt and sad were words that she knew from the book in the case of sad. The situation was aptly described and you could see immediately that the frustration of things not being clear were lifted and she was 'happy' as a result. When she bit me she said to me hurt/sad? I said yes because to say no would've been very confusing. I don't see how this is mind games?

I actually think it is actually very wrong to make throw away comments about people being abusive- mud sticks and all that. You have no right, no right at all.

[ledkr]

Latest research suggests showing empathy for toddler tantrums can help the brain firm pathways which will help them be more rational in later life also reduces length and frequency of tantrums. It's working for my two yr old maybe that info is more widespread now.

[NapaCab]

@piprabbit - very true! I like your shaggy dog story...

Most of the time when I am trying to 'reason' with my toddler, I'm just calming myself down, trying to stay rational and not cry in front of everyone, which is what I really feel like doing. It's also a more benign form of 'loud parenting' where I'm trying to show others around us that I'm not just letting my son run riot and scream his head off but am trying to teach him right from wrong.

Basically I'm saying: 'Look! I'm a good parent!! Honest!! I know my son is screaming blue murder and going purple in the face but I'm really not a bad person!!' My son is so wrapped up in his screaming fit that he couldn't care less what I'm doing or saying.

[differentnameforthis]

Ad the reasoning some of your describe (tiles in fireplaces/pens on walls etc) is a little bit different to leaving a playground & telling them why.

Those parents in those situations above need a wake up slap & are letting their children rule their lives. (In the pens on walls example), why the hell didn't you tell the kid to pack it in? Some kid draws on my walls, I will be the one taking the pen out of their hand, not waiting for the parent to negotiate the release while my walls get ruined!)

Telling a reluctant toddler why they have to leave the playground is worlds apart form begging one not to scribble on other people's walls! That's a failure to parent, not reasoning tactics!

My objection was to the idea that every behaviour, good or bad, is linked to mummys mood Well then, your objection is wrong, because no one has said that every behaviour is linked to mummy's mood. So you are reading out of context!

[ZenNudist]

Yeah don't know why anyone attempts to reason with a toddler tantrum all you have to do is catch him, spend 20mins stuffing him in the pram while being kicked & punched

I opt for bribes.

[ZenNudist]

strikeout fail

[Goldenbear]

Differentnameforthis, you have exactly understood what I was trying to say, slight relief that at least one person on this thread is not thinking I'm i'm an abuser!

[clicketyclick66]

OP, YANBU
You are absolutely right. That's what I did with my toddlers when they couldn't be reasoned with. And believe it or not they are older and did not develop psychological problems!

[TandB]

Goldenbear - I don't think you are an abuser! I typed out a long post and lost it and can't be arsed to re-type, but in essence, I don't think parenting is a mathematical exercise where, if you get one bit of it wrong, the whole thing turns out wrong.

Not that I'm saying you are wrong by the way - just that there are so many conflicting theories about how to be a parent that none of us can know for sure where on the "perfect parent - abusive arse" scale we fall. But I work with people who have had incredibly damaging upbringings and I am pretty confident that the vast majority of people who take the time to read parenting forums and form theories and techniques for raising their children, are considerably closer to the "perfect parent" end than the "abusive arse" end.

In terms of the OP, I think laughing at someone trying their best to deal with a tantrum is a spiteful thing to do. If I saw someone laughing, or looking amused in those circumstances, I would assume they weren't a nice person.

Oh, and repeating that other posters are "defensive" and "sensitive" doesn't lend weight to an argument - it just makes it clear that you aren't prepared to engage in a proper discussion or address the points of those who agree with you. It's a massive cop-out.