To be sick of women's attitudes about their oh's competenence with their children?

[rhondajean]

My blood is boiling! Come tell me I am being totally unreasonable.

In the last week I have read countless threads all of which focused on fathers perceived inability to take care of their own children, make decisions a out parenting, basically be an adult.

I can't decide whether half on MN is married/living with idiots or whether there is such a level of arrogance among some women that they cannot accept they are not irreplaceable to their little darlings for a couple of hours, or even days.

C'mon, slap me down!

I don't know if that was aimed at me, Larry, but I'm aware of that thank you.

I expect my partner to have common sense and empathy when dealing with our/my/his/whatever children, forgetting a nappy sack wouldn't bother me, putting last year's clothes on or whatever or accidentally feeding them a food they didn't like, but forgetting to feed them at all, refusing to change a shitty nappy, ignoring a child who clearly needs your attention etc would be unacceptable.

I did forgive DP when he wiped DS' bum with toilet cleaner wipes in fairness he thought when we bought them and I said "These will be good now DS is toilet training" he thought I meant for bum-wiping, rather than what I actually meant which was that DS puts his hands on the toilet to steady himself and it would be good to wipe it over regularly so it's not too much of a germ-fest.

Completely agree OP. It's sexist and I hate it.

Thumbwitch, how much does your DH love your DS?
And did he care about the lake incident or the trampoline incident?
Does he expect someome else to just come along and make everything better for him?

It often seems in threads like these that women use incidents of misjudgment to show that their husbands really are not safe to be left in charge of their children. But what about all those millions of accidents that happen to children when their mother is in charge- do they prove that the woman is not fit to parent either? In my case, every single serious accident that has happened to my children has happened in front of my eyes and a few of them have been clearly due to my misjudgement. Yet noone has ever suggested that I was unfit to be left in charge, let alone that I was unfit to be left in charge because I was a woman. But I know plenty of women who would use similar incidents to prove the cluelessness of their husbands.
Where are these perfect women who never make an error of judgment? (they're not the ones you see sobbing in A&E, evidently)

"I'd divorce a man who didn't even think to feed a child. Absolutely I would."

The problem there being that once separated, you've no choice but to let your child be in the sole care of that man if he chooses. At least if you stay together you can minimise the time they spend alone, prepare food in advance, use other tactics to minimise the effects on the children. My XP's inability to parent only became a problem for the children after we separated, because while we were together I was able to pro-actively minimise the effects (something I started to do after I had left him to it and he had failed to do much beyond basic supervision). I separated with him because I was sick of having to do so, and inadvertently made things worse for the children (until he stopped having contact, at which point I managed to achieve a happy balance for me and the kids). It's not as black and white as first appears. And as many others have said, women-blaming is not really helpful. The very reason I put up with it for years is because I thought it was my fault. It was only when I realised that it wasn't that I was able to extricate myself from what was a very unhappy situation.

amillion - he loves him to pieces, and now these accidents have happened he won't let them happen again because he's seen the effects of his thoughtlessness. Thing is, I had foreseen the possibilities of the lake accident (and thought the trampoline net was self-evident, obviously not) but he thought I was being silly and over-cautious. Perhaps I am - but I'd rather be that way than have something bad happen to DS through lack of forethought!

Cory - so far nothing like that has happened to DS "on my watch". It could still happen of course - and DH can berate me over anything that does - although I didn't berate him over his thoughtlessness because his guilt was immense, he was suffering enough (both times).

Good points cory.

I think it´s a very individual thing for each couple. Depends HUGELY on conditioning and expectations/attitudes of both people. For eg. I am youngest child- knew sweet F-all about babies before motherhood, DH is eldest and had helped look after his baby brother 14yrs his junior.
1st ever nappy change: HE had to show ME how to do it!
HOWEVER, he then took a step back and assumed that I, having boobs and ovaries, was in charge and left all further decisions, care, etc to me unless I asked (begged?) for him to change a nappy or two, feed, bath, etc.
I had to read all the books, fumble my way around, basically figure out what to do with a pink, squealy infant. He wouldn´t read a single book on babies or childcare (and I bought him two Dad-books...now both at charity shop!)
His conditioning by a very traditional family background was like that....and he honestly still thinks he was this super-hands-on dad!! haha
Anyway, all that said....due to this attitude of "You´re the woman so YOU know all about this and I don´t" he was subsequently a bit crap at things like getting the amount of mild formula right, heating up the milk, picking appropriate clothing (and I´m NOT fussy, but honestly...sometimes it was hilarious!), getting the baby to sleep, yadda yadda....
Soooo....I blame his attitude rather than any inherent abilities. I think he believed he was crap (wanted to be crap??) and hence he was a bit!
Eeek, sorry!

Ah yes. People say , and I have even heard politicians do it, "If we had hindsight......"
And sometimes I feel like screaming back at the telly "A lot of the rest of the population had forethought. You are politicians with hundreds of paid helpers and advisors. Did no one there have forethought"?

The other thing you mention about him is his risk taking.
And here, I might get flamed, but I would say, as a pure generalisation, that men are on the whole, bigger risk takers than women.
And that is an issue with parenting.
Men will learn on the whole as regards parenting.

Is your DH improving Thumbwitch?

Well they are capable of course and you are right, it is sexist.

However this didn't stop me thinking "Why are Father's for Justive wasting their time up buildings when they should be working on putting a stop to things like [what DH had just done]?"

We had been out at friends most of the day and both had been minding the children. We got home and he said 'Have you changed DD?', to which I replied, 'No, I've only given her her milk.' He then changed her and put her in bed (I was with DS). Later on, I noticed her bedclothes in our bedroom and asked him what she was wearing. Here followeth the conversation:

DH: That grey thing she had on.
EA: Do you mean her mauve dress, that she's been wearing all day?
DH: Yeah maybe - I thought it was a nightie you'd put on her.
EA: Why would I have put her in a nightie without changing her nappy first, as we always do?
DH: I dunno! I'm a bit tired.

A lot of what Thumbwitch says rings true. Many's the Saturday I have got up, done several house chores, thought 'Oh gosh, it's lunchtime' and, even though I have not yet had time to make myself breakfast and am starving, got the children's lunch together. Whereas if he's hungry, DH will almost always get himself lunch without thinking of the children first. I am being a martyr but it doesn't change the fact all this shit needs to be done.

Fair points optimist. I was thinking about me as a wife. The lack of respect I would feel for such a useless individual would totally destroy our marriage.

Good grief my grammar and spelling have left the building. Fathers for Justice.

I suppose a lot of it has to do with only getting the mother's opinion. The dads have probably got a totally different point of view.

"Fair points optimist. I was thinking about me as a wife. The lack of respect I would feel for such a useless individual would totally destroy our marriage."

Oh absolutely. It destroyed our relationship and it destroyed my own self-respect, I felt empty and alone for years because I was effectively lone-parenting 4 children. Living alone (well, with no other adult) and lone-parenting 3 children feels nowhere near as lonely as that. My children are very lucky though that their dad chooses not to see them any more. I'm not sure how I'd cope having to regularly send them to another house with a man who wouldn't even make a sandwich for them when we were together. He was a SAHD for several periods of time while we were together so it was nothing to do with not being given opportunities to do things, he just chose not to.

So to go back to the OP, he is absolutely nowhere near as capable as me WRT to providing basic care, making parenting decisions or being an adult for that matter. Not because he is a man and I am a woman or because he has never been given the opportunity to do those things, but because he chooses not to be. I would never choose not to be a parent to my children or to move away from them, not just because I love them and would miss them, but because I have a responsibility towards them, I made a commitment to them to be their parent, to take care of them, to raise them, to support them, to teach them and I cannot just go back on that commitment when it suits me because that would be wrong. That entire thought process seems to be missing from my XP.

Well said cory.

In an ideal world, a lot of discussion about parenting would go on between the soon to be parents.
Though people are perfectly capable of lying. And people are perfectly capable of only seeing and hearing what they want to see and hear.

optimist " I would never choose not to be a parent to my children or to move away from them, not just because I love them and would miss them, but because I have a responsibility towards them, I made a commitment to them to be their parent, to take care of them, to raise them, to support them, to teach them and I cannot just go back on that commitment when it suits me because that would be wrong."

I hope you're not implying that parents who separate do not still have a real commitment to their child. Leaving a relationship where the two parents do not love each other and clearly do not want to be in a relationship together does not mean that the parent who moves out still does not have that commitment to their children and wants to be the best parent they can despite the circumstances.

Someone has to move out if the relationship has failed. And can you imagine a Dad saying "I'm moving out and taking DC to live with me" or telling the wife to leave without their DC?

If or when my DH wasnt up to a certain part of parenting, I used to leave him notes as reminders of what and how to do it!

amillionyears, in an ideal world, yes. But, to be honest, I struggled with predicting what kind of parent I myself would be, let along trying to guess exactly how DH would fulfil his responsibilities. I always new I would like a child of my own, but never actually liked children. I was paranoid throughout pregnancy that I would not love and care for DS as well as I should. Despite my fears, I turned out to be a rather loving and a reasonably competent parent. But by the logic of many on this thread, I should have never had children.

Can'tthink, I apologise if you read my comment that way. I was referring to my XP who has moved a great distance away and no longer sees or parents our children because to him "moving on with his life" was more important than the commitment he made to each of our children.

amillion - yes he is improving in that he doesn't take the same risk again if it had a bad outcome the first time. So now, he always ensures the zip is closed on the trampoline and DS has never had a near-drowning experience again as DH keeps a much closer eye on him and they only let him swim in the lake with a floatation jacket on. But in general he doesn't learn to think ahead and I wish he would because there's always a new risk potential!

Someone else mentioned about the "I don't know" response - I came up against this one quite a lot just before Christmas when asking where the Christmas tree/box of decorations/Santa suit/portable CD player had gone - all things DH had moved without telling me. Every time he said "I don't know" and every time I made him go and look for them because HE was the one who'd moved them (except the CD player which I found on top of the cupboards; he claimed not to have seen it since we left the UK 3y ago). Now I KNOW that this is simply because he doesn't care enough about the stuff to bother to remember where it is, and again there's not a lot I can do to change his attitude, all I can do is make him find it.

I always think that if a potential parent is very scared that they would not love and care for a child, then they should be fine.
I could be wrong, but I dont think so.
Else they wouldnt care or worry about it so much in the first place.

Autumnmadness - that really resonated with me - that could be me you're talking about in your post too! DH was the one who was keen to have children, I was not so bothered and worried that I would be a bit crap at it (and as you say, should, by the logic of some, not have bothered).

Was your DH accident free with himself when he only had himself to look after. Did he have mishaps or make mistakes when he was caring for himself only?